Low-magic/High-magic: The casting or the spells?

Azgulor said:
Thanks for the suggestions.

My pleasure.

I don't mind a little flash, but auto-hits don't work for me.

You might also ask yourself if the reason the spellcaster always takes magic-missile and fireball is because of lack of options. One idea I have toyed around with quite a bit is replacing the tried-n-true fireball/lighting bolt and other direct energy attacks with the energy <area of effect> powers from XPH. ie:

Energy Ball, Energy Bolt, Energy Burst, Energy Cone, Energy Current, Energy Missile, Energy Push, Energy Ray, Energy Retort, Energy Stun, Energy Wall, Energy Wave

This has worked pretty well for me, and my players enjoyed the option of throwing a Sonic Ball, or Cold Bolt a lot more instead of the tired fireball, lighting bolt.

I have toyed with the idea of making each energy type it's own spell, and making players memorize specific energy type spells vs. letting them choose the energy type when they cast, but my ruling seems to change with the style of the campaign.

Oriental Adventures has some particularly flavorful spells in my opinion. Lightning Sword is perhaps one of my favorite spells of all time.

I suspect, since we're talking TW spellcasting, the spellcasting/ritual bonus would be used in place of the BAB?

That's a possibility, but I was actually thinking of the standard "Ranged Touch Attack" BAB + Dex.

As far as the TW system as a whole, I modified the rules slightly for my own particular style. I personally dislike that the sorcerer class' spell slots are forever frozen with the spell selections they've made over their career. I also enjoy the stylistic elements of scrolls and grimoires, so I added memorization and grimoires back into the rules like so:

All spells are written in an arcane language. This language literally writhes with energy, and changes shape if idly watched. The nature of this language is such that the memory of anything written in this language will fade from memory very quickly, without a great deal of effort to commit the script to memory. Scrolls written in arcane do not exhibit this property.

Complete spells are kept in grimoires. Only from grimoires may a sorcerer cast spells that are neither Known nor Familiar. Studying from a grimoire is the only method to memorize a spell.

Known, Familiar, Unknown
Each spell is classified as Known, Familiar, or Unknown. This classification is relative. Because magic is so difficult to retain, unless a sorcerer purposefully retains the complete spell in memory, a spell quickly becomes unknown. A sorcerer may remember having cast the spell Fireball, for example, but unless he’s gone through the motions to retain the spell formula (as a Known or Familiar spell), he is unable to recall the formula for the spell at all.

Memorizing spells is both time consuming and mentally taxing. Willing arcane script to remain legible can only be done for about an hour per day. It requires one day per spell level to imprint a spell from a grimoire to the caster’s mind and requires a successful spellcasting check (either base or ritual, player’s choice). The DC is 10 + Spell Level. An Unknown Spell becomes Familiar, and a Familiar Spell becomes Known. Therefore, it takes 2 days per spell level to make an Unknown Spell a Known Spell. A sorcerer cannot just use a scroll to change his familiarity with a spell.

If the sorcerer is replacing one spell with another, he must clear his mind of the memorized spell before committing the new one. Forgetting a spell takes a full-round action.

A wise spellcaster will often prepare spells from a grimoire while in the comforts of his own study, then set out with scrolls of any spells he is only Familiar with, leaving his heavy and unwieldy grimoire safely at home. Wealthy sorcerers sometimes travel with a grimoire, but usually if they have copies of the spells stashed elsewhere.

Scrolls and Grimoires
A spell inscribed on a scroll is a subset of the more complete work found in grimoires. A scroll cannot be used to cast a spell if the sorcerer is not at least Familiar with the spell. Unlike a grimoire, a scroll can be readied with a Ready action.

A grimoire is a large and unwieldy text containing complete descriptions of one or more spells. Because of their size, they are difficult to ready in combat, and are usually too valuable to travel with. A spell inscribed in a grimoire can be cast by a spell caster who is not Familiar with the spell.

Creating Scrolls and Grimoires
To create a scroll, a character needs a supply of choice writing materials, the cost of which is subsumed in the cost for scribing the scroll—12.5 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster.

All writing implements and materials used to scribe a scroll must be fresh and unused. A character must pay the full cost for scribing each spell scroll no matter how many times she previously has scribed the same spell.

The creator must know the spell to be scribed, or have another grimoire from which to copy. He must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself.

Likewise, a material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)
Scribing a scroll requires one day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.

Item Creation Feat Required: Scribe Scroll.

The process for creating a grimoire is the same as for a scroll, except all costs, except when the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, are doubled.
 

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Azgulor said:
I guess by way of example, I don't like Teleport and Fly

Easily removed.

but don't have a problem with higher level spells enabling the caster to turn into a bird (and only a bird)

You could expand and dissect the shapechange spell into lower version variants that allow only specific shapes (equal in power to when druids get certain shapechanging abilities). ie. A 3rd level spell that allows you to turn into a medium or small animal. A 4th level spell that allows large, etc.

As another example, I probably wouldn't have a problem with Hold Person if it was either A) a higher level spell or B) required the caster to maintain contact with the Held party - either maintaining eye contact, the frozen party must hear the caster's voice, the hold only lasting while the caster sings, etc.

Quick & Dirty:
a) Turn all duration spells into "Concentration" spells
b) Provide feats which allow for limited spellcasting or higher DC concentration to cast additional spells or maintain more than one.

or

b) Turn all duration spells which affect unwilling targets into "Concentration" spells


I've thought about trying to tweak the existing system like my Hold Person example above, but I don't want to spend what little prep time I have on rewriting the spells if I don't have to.

Sometimes it's easier to make a blanket judgement, and then see what burrs still poke through. Don't waste time evaluating every spell, make sweeping loose changes and be willing to work with the group to tweak that change when needed.
 

Stormborn said:
Personally I prefer a system that uses somethign other than nonleathal damage or ability damage to make it "low magic." As none exist that I know of for d20 I have had tomake my own.

GR's True 20 uses a simple save mechanic to determine whether you are "Fatigued" after spell casting, as uses the native condition summaries for Fatigued, and Exhausted to describe the effects of over exertion from spellcasting.
 

sinmissing said:
You could expand and dissect the shapechange spell into lower version variants that allow only specific shapes (equal in power to when druids get certain shapechanging abilities). ie. A 3rd level spell that allows you to turn into a medium or small animal. A 4th level spell that allows large, etc.



Quick & Dirty:
a) Turn all duration spells into "Concentration" spells
b) Provide feats which allow for limited spellcasting or higher DC concentration to cast additional spells or maintain more than one.

or

b) Turn all duration spells which affect unwilling targets into "Concentration" spells

Excellent suggestions - very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Azgulor
 

Red Spire Press said:
Dark Legacies not only provides all new low-magic mechanics for spellcasting (including casting difficulty, spellcasting strain, spellcasting failure side-effects, and corrupting taint) but also provides all new spells in keeping with the mood of a low magic setting, as well as all new rules for demonic and holy items of power, which replace magic items. Hope that sheds some light.

I had initially looked at Dark Legacies but then dismissed it as the write-ups I found didn't mention new spells. Since I already had several systems with vairant casting rules, I wasn't looking for another one, but if the spells are not D&D-standard fare, I may need to reconsider.

How much of the book does the magic chapter occupy? Since I won't be switching campaign settings any time soon, I'll be pulling bits and pieces rather than taking the book as a whole if I get it.

Thanks,

Azgulor
 

Azgulor said:
I had initially looked at Dark Legacies but then dismissed it as the write-ups I found didn't mention new spells. Since I already had several systems with vairant casting rules, I wasn't looking for another one, but if the spells are not D&D-standard fare, I may need to reconsider.

How much of the book does the magic chapter occupy? Since I won't be switching campaign settings any time soon, I'll be pulling bits and pieces rather than taking the book as a whole if I get it.

Thanks,

Azgulor
Well they should have mentioned new spells, because there's an entire chapter full of them. :) 60 new spells with complete descriptions, component lists, and casting processes. And even though you may not be looking for more rules specifiically, I think you'll find a lot of the supplemental non-magic oriented rules useful for filling out a low-magic campaign. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers.
 

Just to add to your alternatives:

Conan d20's magic system is dark and subtle -- good for a low magic feel.

Call of Cthulhu d20 magic would also make a nice low magic system.

Alternately, there are actually a lot of nice, low magic feeling spells spread across all the various d20 rulebooks out there -- it's just that they're usually too specialized so the players always rely on the old Magic Missile. One thing you could do is go into E-Tools, PCGen, DM Genie, or one of the various spellbook making applications you can find on the internet -- then just go through the whole list of spells as if you were making your own spellbook, but specifically take only the spells that are cool or fit your concept (frex I'd drop MM but definitely keep Evard's Black Tentacles) -- then make any small adjustments to level you might want.
 

1 Only allow bard magic. Provides healing, divinations, charms etc. but not the flashier bang/anime magic stuff.

2 a lot of psionic stuff and alternative psionic stuff is good at providing magic with a different magic or more subtle magic feel.

3 d20 call of cthulhu has lower magic higher cost dark magic stuff but I'm not familiar with it.

4 I'm not that familiar with d20 modern magic and psionics but they have a lower powered system than D&D (I think you have work a few levels before you can get to a casting class).
 

d20 Modern is probably too close to baseline D&D to be of use. Modern structures magic around Advanced Classes (about halfway between base classes and PrCs). Casters in your game will still be able to use magic missile and fireball, they'll just have to wait three extra levels to do so. (They also can't use sixth-level spells or higher, and even some particularly powerful 4th and 5th level ones, but that's not enough to solve Azgulor's problem.)

From what I understand, AU/AE uses 0-9 level spells that fit the standard D&D power curve, but has more flavorful spells and doesn't have any near-broken spells like magic missile. What about taking a low-magic casting system designed to work with D&D (Such as Grim Tales), and plugging in Arcana Unearthed spells?
 

2WS-Steve said:
Just to add to your alternatives:

Conan d20's magic system is dark and subtle -- good for a low magic feel.

Call of Cthulhu d20 magic would also make a nice low magic system.
Seconded, and seconded. Both are designed to get away from the flashy explodey sparkly magic of standard D&D, much more subtle.
 

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