low magic world

[Cheiromancer]

I was reading the Jester's world of Cydra story hour, and in it the party ventures onto the low magic world of Arba. Magic in Arba has the following properties:

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General Notes: Spells have a maximum duration of 1 round/level, a maximum range of short, give maximum bonuses of any type except for skill bonuses of +1, and give a maximum skill bonus of +4.

Targets and Damage: Spells deal a maximum of 1d6 damage. A targetted spell can only target one creature or object.

Healing: Healing spells turn real damage into subdual damage. Spells that heal ability damage heal only one point.

Transmutations: Spells that change a target's shape or substance fail. Teleportation effects will not funciton. Spells that give an ability such as water breathing, flight or something similar instead grant a +4 competence bonus to the most appropriate skill (Swim or Jump).

Illusions: Illusions last only a single round.

Conjurations: Fail.

Divinations: Any divinations that involve asking questions take at least an hour to cast and require an animal sacrifice for entrail reading.

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Now immediately I like this better than the "impeded magic" rules in the SRD. And I have a few simultaneous responses:

1. How do I break the rules? (i.e. what are the best spells with short range and 1 round/level duration)

2. What are the ambiguities or inconsistencies of the rules? (Is a bull's strength limited to a +2 to strength, giving +1 to attacks and damage, or +1? Should a cause wounds spell inflict 1d6 damage, or do the normal amount of damage, only in non-lethal form?)

3. How can the rules be improved?

So what does everyone think? How can these rules be min/maxed, where do they break down, how can they be improved?

 

[The Little Raven]

First off, the primary spellcasting classes lose a good deal of their power due to these changes. All damage dealing spells above 1st level are useless (since max damage is 1d6). Entire schools of magic are now worthless. You need to add some more unique abilities to those classes in order to make them viable next to fighter and rogue.

My suggestion, honestly, would be to simply divide all ranges in half (including cones, lines, and all fixed ranges), divide all areas by one half (so a fireball becomes a 10-ft radius), and divide all effects by one half (so a 5th level caster throwing a fireball only deals 2d6 points of damage to a 10ft radius at a range of 300 feet, a bull's strength only gives a +2 Strength). Another suggestion, if you really want to hamper them, is to divide caster level in half... so a 10th-level wizard (or cleric, or druid) has a caster level of 5 (10 / 2 [low magic]), while a 10th-level ranger (or paladin) would have a caster level of 2 (10 / 2 [normal] = 5 / 2 [low magic] = 2.5). This makes spells much less effective, but it still allows them to be used sparingly.

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

Hey

I played in a campaign very similar to this. We used Grim n Gritty, so we needed to wicked tone down the damage magic can inflict. I'm not gonna comment on each question right now, maybe later, but in response to Mourn ... so long as magic items are as nerfed as magic, the spellcasting classes should still old their own.

Thanks
-Matt

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

That submit button looks too much like the preview button

As I was saying, so long as fighters and the like are restricted from carrying around potions, beads of force, and all that other nonsense stemming from the capitalist magocracy of standard DnD, the spellcasters will still be capable of producing effects unduplicable (if thats a word) by nonspellcasting classes. One thing that might be important to maintain balance, though, would be to acknowledge the secondary effects of spells on the environment ... ie, though casting a fireball might be for considerably less damage, the DM should take care to have flammable items catch fire. I only mention this because, IME, it is often overlooked in typical "nuke 'em with spells" campaigns.

Hope I've helped
-Matt

 

[the Jester]

Now immediately I like this better than the "impeded magic" rules in the SRD. And I have a few simultaneous responses:

1. How do I break the rules? (i.e. what are the best spells with short range and 1 round/level duration)

2. What are the ambiguities or inconsistencies of the rules? (Is a bull's strength limited to a +2 to strength, giving +1 to attacks and damage, or +1? Should a cause wounds spell inflict 1d6 damage, or do the normal amount of damage, only in non-lethal form?)

3. How can the rules be improved?

So what does everyone think? How can these rules be min/maxed, where do they break down, how can they be improved?

Speaking from having run the game, I'll chime in here on the way I ran it (it lasted about three sessions)...

1. The best spells turned out to be things like (pre-3.5) harm, destruction, slay living, etc. Forget damage- go for things that have dramatic effects. Also, the pretty much nonexistence of spells or magic on Arba made even small effects spectacular to the locals, if they were flashy. I'd say that charms and the like are better than damage dealers in this kind of system, too.

2. Bull's strength would give a +1 enhancement bonus to str. Inflict wounds would deal 1d6 hp of damage, though the idea of inflicting subdual instead is kinda cool.

3. Teleportation works to short range, i.e. you can only teleport 25' + 5'/2 levels. (I made a snap decision on that one in-game as we played.) Other than that, I'd make item creation much harder and costlier, and I added a bunch of new materials that could act to compensate slightly for the lack of magic (for instance, the razor-sharp weapon property increases a piercing or slashing weapon's threat range by 1, which stacks with other bonuses to it). Also, it seemed like a good idea to increase the armor bonus of all medium armor by +1 and all heavy armor by +2.

I'm interested to see what you all come up with here!

 

[Cheiromancer]

The inflict/cure duality was one of the things that bothered me. If you can convert d8+5 hp of damage into non-lethal damage with a cure light wounds you should be able to do the opposite with inflict light wounds; i.e. inflict d8+5 hp of non-lethal damage. Harm should do your current hit points (less 1d4) in non-lethal damage, the reverse of heal.

What should black tentacles do? Each tentacle (in 3.5) does 1d6+4 damage; 1d6 base, +4 for strength. Should this be reduced to the standard 1d6? If so, then should the grapple check be based on a 19 strength (+4 damage bonus) or an 11 strength (+0 damage bonus)?

A wall of fire- how much damage should it do? As it is, it does 1d4 damage to creatures between 10 and 20 feet from it, 2d4 damage to creatures within 10 feet, and 2d6 + 1/level (max 20) to creatures who pass through. Does it make sense to cap these numbers to 1d6? I.e. the amounts become 1d4, 1d6, 1d6?

How about acid arrow? Should it do 1d6 damage and then stop, or should it do 1d6 per round until it's duration expires.

What about spells with duration: concentration? Do they expire when the caster stops concentrating, or when 1 round/level has elapsed?

Note that hideous laughter is a very nice spell, not limited at all by these rules. Neither is blink, displacement, fear, feather fall, ghoul touch, grease, implosion, greater invisibility, irresistable dance, power word kill, power word stun, pyrotechnics, repulsion or time stop. Others are quite still quite useful, despite a limited duration or range.

It would be nice if there were a clear rule as to when a spell could be instantaneous. Fireball is instantaneous and works in Arba (though it only does 1d6 damage), but simulacrum doesn't. How about clone, or something like remove blindness or raise dead?

 

[Cheiromancer]

What happens to spells like raise dead, reincarnate, animate dead, clone or awaken?

Can golems, simulacra or undead exist in Arba?

(I guess simulacra can't, because illusions last only one round. But I mean in the context of magic that provides life or an imitation of life.)

I would suggest something like the following:

Life/Unlife: Spells that grant life, sentience or animation last no more than 10 minutes, even if normally of “instantaneous” duration. (Clone, awaken, reincarnation, raise dead, animate dead, etc.) Living creatures are not retroactively killed by this effect.

So no golems, no awakened animals, no sentient magic items, but a character who has been raised in the past won't drop dead.

 

[the Jester]

These are the answers I came up with based on how I ran it... feel free to adapt, modify or discard as needed and desired...

The inflict/cure duality was one of the things that bothered me. If you can convert d8+5 hp of damage into non-lethal damage with a cure light wounds you should be able to do the opposite with inflict light wounds; i.e. inflict d8+5 hp of non-lethal damage. Harm should do your current hit points (less 1d4) in non-lethal damage, the reverse of heal.

Very good point, and one I like... This is not how I ran it but if I was redesigning it now this is a change I'd make!

What should black tentacles do? Each tentacle (in 3.5) does 1d6+4 damage; 1d6 base, +4 for strength. Should this be reduced to the standard 1d6? If so, then should the grapple check be based on a 19 strength (+4 damage bonus) or an 11 strength (+0 damage bonus)?

Well, as a conjuration, it would just fail.

A wall of fire- how much damage should it do? As it is, it does 1d4 damage to creatures between 10 and 20 feet from it, 2d4 damage to creatures within 10 feet, and 2d6 + 1/level (max 20) to creatures who pass through. Does it make sense to cap these numbers to 1d6? I.e. the amounts become 1d4, 1d6, 1d6?

That's how I'd have run it, if it had come up. Anyone closer than 10' would suffer 1d6, anyone 11'-20' away would suffer 1d4.

How about acid arrow? Should it do 1d6 damage and then stop, or should it do 1d6 per round until it's duration expires.

Oho! Another great pick! 1d6/round.

What about spells with duration: concentration? Do they expire when the caster stops concentrating, or when 1 round/level has elapsed?

Whichever happens first; they have a maximum duration of 1 round/level, but if you have to concentrate to keep it up it could end sooner.

It would be nice if there were a clear rule as to when a spell could be instantaneous. Fireball is instantaneous and works in Arba (though it only does 1d6 damage), but simulacrum doesn't. How about clone, or something like remove blindness or raise dead?

Well, simulacrum is an illusion and therefore lapses after one round. Other spells I would have to deal with case-by-case; generally, anything that instantly creates something or alters life forces is going to last 1 round/level (that clone or raise dead doesn't last long; on the other hand, once destruction expires you're already dead, so you stay dead).

The "Life/Unlife" thing you've got going there is a good start, though I'd stick with the 1 round/level timeframe.

 

[Gellion]

Bah to this system, um i need to contribute something useful to this thread dont i?

Ummmm blah blah blah something useful blah blah blah.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I'm going to have a low magic parallel universe in my fall campaign, I think. Forgotten Realms style portals, most of which are one-way. There will be a way for the heroes to get back, of course, but it won't be easy.

I think these rules (as tweaked and revisioned by me, of course) will make a fine basis for how magic will work. I might add Clay_More's spirits to the mix, too. And maybe a few "classy" monsters like wyverns and griffins.

Characters will be inconvenienced, but a wizard who knows what spells to prepare will still be deadly.

Here's what I'm thinking of - pretend it's bolded and italicized in all the right places

Magic notes:

General duration: Spells with a finite duration (including “concentration”) of more than one round have a maximum duration of 1 round/level.

Permanent duration: Spells with a duration of “permanent” last 10 minutes.

1 round duration: Spells whose duration is one round (either naturally, or because of a low magic effect) function as written except for range and damage (see below). In other words, such spells are not further affected by other effects of low magic. This includes 1 round/level spells cast by 1st level spellcasters.

General range: Spells with a range of long or less are reduced to short.

Extreme range: Spells with a range greater than “long” are reduced to long range.

Targetting: Targetted spells affect at most one target. Spells which have the option of targetting the same target multiple times may do so.

Damage: Spells which inflict damage like fireball, wall of fire or lightning bolt have a density of energy about that of a torch; they deal a maximum of 1d6 hp damage in a given round. However certain spells may affect a given creature multiple times: for example, each orb in a meteor swarm will do 1d6 damage, as will each damaging layer of a prismatic wall. Each missile of a magic missile does the standard 2-5 hp damage. A character who passes through a wall of fire multiple times in one round receives 1d6 damage each time (but no damage for being near the wall- it is no hotter than a torch).

Damaging Transformations: Spells like disintegrate, shatter or rusting grasp deal damage as noted in their spell description; their damage is not reduced by low magic.

Cures/Inflicts: Cure spells turn real damage into non-lethal damage. Inflict spells deal non-lethal damage instead.

Healing: Spells that remove harmful conditions such as blindness, disease, poison or curses give the recipient a new saving throw against the condition. If the harmful effect did not allow a save, use DC 25.

Restoration: Spells that normall heal ability drain turn it into ability damage instead. To heal ability damage you need an effect that could heal than amount of ability drain. Effects that remove negative levels or restore levels lost to energy drain instead give a new save.

Life/Unlife: Spells that grant life, sentience or animation last no more than 10 minutes, even if normally of “instantaneous” duration. (Clone, awaken, reincarnation, raise dead, animate dead, etc.) Living creatures are not retroactively killed by this effect.

Divinations: Any divinations that involve asking questions take at least an hour to cast and require an animal sacrifice for entrail reading. This requires a knowledge (religion or arcana) check, DC 15.

Bonuses: Magic that grants a bonus to attacks, damage or saving throws has a maximum bonus of +1. Bonuses to ability scores are capped at +2, and bonuses to skills are capped at +4.

Illusions: Any kind of illusion ends after one round. This including figments, glamers, phantasms and shadow effects.

Summonings/callings: Any effect that brings something from another plane of existence ends after one round. Called or summoned creatures then return to where they came from.

Conjured forces: Spells like grasping tentacles, mage’s sword and the various hand spells have their duration reduced to one round.

Planar Travel: Effects which place a target on the plane of shadow, on the astral plane, or on the ethereal plane last for only one round. Attempts to access extradimensional spaces or travel to other planes simply fail.

Note: Unlike Jester’s original rules, in this variant I allow petrification, gaseous form and polymorph, though possibly with a shorter duration. Spells like darkvision, flying or water breathing work, although they also will have a very limited duration. Blink works normally, despite the restriction on planar travel, since it produces a new plane shifting effect each round. True strike works normally, despite the restriction on bonuses, since it naturally has a 1 round duration.