Lowering Half-Celestial Level Adjust

[ThatGuyThere]

Hello!

I was hoping to get some opinions on lowering the Level Adjust for Half-Celestial.

In exchange for losing the spell-like abilities and the Spell Resistance, I was considering dropping the Level Adjust to +2.

Can I get some other opinions on this?

 

[Nifft]

The stat bonuses are still pretty darn good... as are the immunities and wings. It's a tough one.

Do you use point-buy for character creation? If so, how many points? (That determines the value of stat boosts, you see...)

Cheers, -- N

 

[ThatGuyThere]

The stat bonuses are still pretty darn good... as are the immunities and wings. It's a tough one.

Do you use point-buy for character creation? If so, how many points? (That determines the value of stat boosts, you see...)

Cheers, -- N

Thanks for the feedback / help.

I'm using 38 points for stats. Additionally, the character / player taking the template is a Sapphire Heirarch (Magic of Incarnum), so she's giving up two levels of spellcasting. AND, wearing medium armor (mithril full plate), will need to take a Feat to be able to fly in it (a Feat I've allowed in my group before without regret).

I'm pretty comfortable with it in THIS case; mostly, having "figured it out" (dropping the DR / SR / Spell-Likes and dropping the Level Adjust), I'm interested in seeing if other DMs / rules gurus consider it a generally-balanced-proposal. And, maybe someone else will read it and think "Oh, say, that's a neat thing I'd never thought of"...

So, as a general case... Good idea? Crazy idea? Crazy-good idea?

 

[Vrecknidj]

The half-celestial gets a LOT of good stuff. I'd consider making a new template, toning things down across the board, and doing so with the goal of forcing it into a LA+2 package from the beginning.

Dave

 

[Nifft]

Let's see.

On the face of it, +4 Str alone (unbalanced) is worth at least LA +1, thanks to the attack bonus. +2 Dex, +4 Con: wow. +2 Int, +4 Cha, +4 Wis: Wow wow wow.

Outsider type: solid gold. Immunities to a bunch of stuff. Yay!

The energy resistances are pretty good, but don't scale with level.

Darkvision and daylight (at will) are okay, nothing to write home about.

Disease immunity is campaign-dependent.

Natural Armor +1: whatever.

Wings: good at low level, but great at high level. Natural flight is fantastic when magical flight is assumed and anti-magic field becomes an issue.

Smite Evil: Nice for the extra daily use. Can be really nice if you allow feats to grant extra smitings, or if the PC could already smite (and this just grants another daily use).

- - -

The stat boosts alone make me pause at allowing this for a mere LA +2. The original template's spell-like abilities are misleading, since you'll always be four HD behind the "appropriate" effects on the chart -- at ECL 5, you'll get the 1 HD effects, and you won't get the 7 HD effect until ECL 11. So the value of the SLAs should be pretty low.

The template's SR is pretty weak, too. 10 + HD (when HD = ECL -4) is pathetic. Foes with a caster level equal to your HD will penetrate this 50% of the time (if they don't invest in spell penetration), and they are four CR below your ECL! Foes with a caster level equal to your ECL will penetrate your SR at least 70% of the time. So IMHO the SR isn't worth much.

- - -

So, IMHO you're giving too much for too little, even granting that stat boosts are worth (relatively) less for such high point-buy PCs.

Here's what I'd allow for LA +2:

• Type remains the same. In my game, you'd gain the (Good) descriptor, since I prefer to use descriptors rather than alignments to determine the effects of alignment-dependent spells.
• Feathered wings: fly speed 60 ft. (good)
• +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha: as a half-celestial, you're better at everything.
• Darkvision 60 ft.
• Daylight (Sp) at will
• Natural Armor +1
• Energy resistance 10 (acid, cold, electricity)
• Immunity to disease, +4 to Fort saves vs. Poison

Cheers, -- N

 

[ThatGuyThere]

Hadn't thought about type remaining the same... I like that. Probably a good idea.

I've used it before at +2 LA, and been generally pleased, but you do make a good point about the STR bonus (and everything else besides!)

 

[evilbob]

Generally Nifft is very good at LA calls. Personally, I wouldn't value the stat adjustments quite as much as he seems to, but I agree that the proposal he has made is a solid +2 LA, and the OP proposal seems closer to at least a high-end +3 (whereas the template itself is more of a low-end +4). His suggestion seems very fair to me.

 

[Sigurd]

Here's what I'd allow for LA +2:

* Type remains the same. In my game, you'd gain the (Good) descriptor, since I prefer to use descriptors rather than alignments to determine the effects of alignment-dependent spells.
* Feathered wings: fly speed 60 ft. (good)
* +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha: as a half-celestial, you're better at everything.
* Darkvision 60 ft.
* Daylight (Sp) at will
* Natural Armor +1
* Energy resistance 10 (acid, cold, electricity)
* Immunity to disease, +4 to Fort saves vs. Poison


Cheers, -- N

Looking at it from the outside that still seems really generous.


-- Sigurd

 

[Nifft]

Looking at it from the outside that still seems really generous.

For a Core campaign: it is a tad on the generous side. His high point-buy reduces the value of the stat boosts, though.

IMHO, of course. -- N