Lvl 1 Bear Shaman AC a problem?

[mysticknight232]

My wife and I just started in a game, she played a panther shaman for one session before switching to bear shaman. The party got torn apart the first session and the panther shaman just didn't have enough defensive buffs or healing. Since switching to the bear, we have been in much better shape. She took Bear Spirit Adept so the bear constantly gives +1 F/R/W to adjacent allies, she spams the temp HP at-will, and the extra HPs we gain from her spirit boon (+3 to second winds and to recipients of her healing power when adjacent to her spirit) has made a huge difference. At 1st level, that +3 is about another half-surge. The way we've been playing it (and I don't know if this is right or not, but it works for our GM) is that if both the primary target and the splash healing target for Healing Spirit are both adjacent to her SC, they both get the spirit boon bonus hit points. Coupled with the feat that adds her Wisdom Mod to the primary target of Healing Spirit, and at first level she was healing a surge+7 to the primary target and 1d6+3 to the secondary target. Healer's Armor is high on her to-get list too.

Well, this is exactly what I'm afraid will happen. I guess I may have to play the Panther Shaman build at least once to try it out and see how it goes. I'm hoping I can supplement THP with healing versatility from feats.

Frankly, I'm quite surprised they only have one THP power and it's geared towards a certain build. Other leaders don't limit their THP powers like this that I'm aware of. I was also contemplating playing an Ardent and I love their Energizing Strike power that can target one ally within 5 squares. And that power scales up nicely granting 1/2 lvl to the THP as well.

Edit: @Mengu - Does the Panther Shaman group have another leader in it or is the Panther Shaman the only healer? That might be worth knowing if he can heal on his own or with support. My current lvl 3 LFR group has a Monk (me), Swordmage, Rogue, Cleric and Bard. The Bard is clearly the supporting leader and is the one that grants us tons of THP...but rarely has to cast a heal. So I'm just curious if the Panther Shaman is a better secondary healer or if they can actually support a full party by themselves?

 

[Thatwackyned]

I'm using the spirit companion write up from PHB 2, which I believe trumps all generic things. It specifically states that the spirits is destroyed (as per an object) but is a bit vague on defenses, etc. if any damage equals or exceeds 10 + half my level (currently 12) then it is destroyed.

Spirits Rarely die. Area and Close attacks don't damage the spirit. And the spirit does not provoke OA. Thus, the only attacks which may kill spirit is melee or ranged attacks directly target the spirit.

Was this cleared up anywhere? Errata maybe?

 

[Mengu]

Edit: @Mengu - Does the Panther Shaman group have another leader in it or is the Panther Shaman the only healer? That might be worth knowing if he can heal on his own or with support. My current lvl 3 LFR group has a Monk (me), Swordmage, Rogue, Cleric and Bard. The Bard is clearly the supporting leader and is the one that grants us tons of THP...but rarely has to cast a heal. So I'm just curious if the Panther Shaman is a better secondary healer or if they can actually support a full party by themselves?

The Panther Shaman is the only leader in the group of 6. However, there is a paladin with lay on hands for an emergency heal when needed (though he ends up using it on himself more often than not). Around level 6 the sorcerer picked up bard multiclass for an emergency heal, but she has rarely needed it.

In my opinion, if 2 generic heals per encounter isn't enough for a party, either the party isn't clicking right, or the DM is pushing the envelope of the damage PC's can handle a little too much.

<begin philosophy>Whatever people say, it's an arms race. The DM's job is to make fights more challenging for you. Super healers, and super resilient defenders are the reason fights take long. At first level, your party will feel like they are getting badly beat up, but they will survive. This is exactly what the DM wants. The moment you start trying to beat the DM by increasing your resilience, you are entering a race you cannot win at the cost of longer and longer combats. Resist that temptation, stick to your guns, and play "what you want to play" as opposed to "what you feel you have to play". More healing is not the answer to problems. Ever. Play what you want, improve your tactics and inner party coordination, and trust your DM to adjust to your party's capabilities.<end philosophy>

 

[Thatwackyned]

Spirits Rarely die. Area and Close attacks don't damage the spirit. And the spirit does not provoke OA. Thus, the only attacks which may kill spirit is melee or ranged attacks directly target the spirit. And those attacks must inflict 11+ damage against a L1 Shaman's spirit to kill.

Can you point me to the rules on this cause I've been targeting my players spirit with the Area and Close Attacks of the monsters.

 

[mysticknight232]

Can you point me to the rules on this cause I've been targeting my players spirit with the Area and Close Attacks of the monsters.

I'm sure somebody will present a real point here for that...but the one thing I do know is that your SC is a conjuration and under the definition of a conjuration, they normally cannot be targeted. My guess then is the answer lies in the SC at-will power where it tells you that they can be targeted...hopefully it details in there how they can be targeted. I also know that a conjuration, if it can be targeted, uses the casters defenses per the rules of a conjuration.

 

[Mengu]

Can you point me to the rules on this cause I've been targeting my players spirit with the Area and Close Attacks of the monsters.

Conjurations can't be targeted by attacks, and the spirit companion rules spell out the exception to this:

"The spirit can be targeted by melee or ranged attacks"

Area and close attacks are neither melee nor ranged attacks, and as such do not affect the spirit companion.

 

[Istar]

I'm looking at playing a Bear Shaman for our next adventure. We'll likely be starting at lvl 1. Given that the build is a Wis/Con build, my Dex/Int likely won't be higher than 11 or 12, meaning that my lvl 1 AC with leather armor would be AC 12 or AC 13 at the most. Will this be a problem? The Shaman is obviously a ranged leader...but will I need to worry about my spirit companion getting hit so often that I'll start to take dmg several times during an encounter? Not to mention that many of the Shaman's ranged powers have a range of 5 (non spirit melee powers), which makes me afraid that a random mob will just break away from the pack and start to aim for me and/or ranged mobs as well.

I'm looking for opinions from anybody and everybody as well as from players that have or are playing a Bear Shaman. I do realize that if I gave myself a 13 Str, I could take Armor Proficiency Chainmail at lvl 1 which is tempting...but I'd rather spend that feat on a Shaman feat to enhance the healing. Thoughts?

Thanks, and happy hunting!

Shouldnt be a problem at all, unless you want to live

 

[mysticknight232]

Shouldnt be a problem at all, unless you want to live

So you're saying the party may have a problem if the leader only uses his healing spells on himself?