[M&M] Question about Flaws and Powers as Extras

[Thanee]

If a character has a Power as an Extra of another Power, which also has a Flaw. Does that Flaw apply to the Extra-Power as well (if reasonably possible, of course)?

As an example...

Dimensional Travel +10
» Extra: Teleportation +10
»»»»»»»» Stunt: Extended Teleport
» Flaw : Heroic Effort
» Flaw : Limited-One Dimension

The Limited Flaw obviously makes no sense with Teleportation, but does Heroic Effort apply to it, because it is part of the base power (Dimensional Travel)?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Calinon]

I'd say yes. There might be some odd time that it doesn't, but consider an energy blast that requires fuel.

Electro-man needs a source of electricity to power his blasts. He also has the extra of flight on his energy blast. Flight should also require a source of electricity to use. So I'd say the flaws of the base power affect the extras and stunts. There may of course be exceptions, so it would be by a case by case basis.

 

[Thanee]

Just wondering how it is done right. So far I'm assuming that it does affect the attached Powers, but I just don't know.

I guess there is no official rule for this, or is there?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ranger REG]

You could try the forum on www.mutantsandmasterminds.com (called the Atomic Thinktank). M&M guru Steve Kenson could answer your question.

 

[hobgoblin]

there have been a lot of discussions over on the m&m board about this and im not sure they have come out with a clear and simple mechanic. personaly i say that yeas they apply as long as it makes logical sense as when you attach a power as a extra it just becomes another effect of the whole power (see the design new powers chapter). but you could allso just flaw or extra a power that itself is a extra (man this could have been made clearer before they printed the book, and from what i understand its not even cleand up in the second printng ) and thereby have them only apply to that part of the whole power and so on. mind you this is my personal take and while i find the system incredibly flexible it is allso at times annoying (no definition in the existing powers when something is a extra effect of secondary effect so there is no way to go back to them and look at what decicions the writers made while reading the design power section. extras defined as being automatic without saying that powers taken as a extra is not. the list goes on).

 

[Thanee]

Well, for what it's worth, I posted the question in the official mutantsandmasterminds Rules Forum.

Let's see what Steve's take is on that matter.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Valiantheart]

This is the kind of question that shouldnt be posted for Steve. The man has more important things to do than answer a question that anyone could have answered in 1 minute using the search function.

The answer is no the flaws do not have to apply to every extra in a power. They may be applied individually to an extra or to the entire power. The cost break is the same. Traditionally extras cannot be flawed to cost less than 1pp per rank.

 

[The Grackle]

This is the kind of question that shouldnt be posted for Steve. The man has more important things to do than answer a question that anyone could have answered in 1 minute using the search function.

Well, he's answered the 800 some questions before this one so I'm sure he won't mind too much.


I think is an issue of how you write out stat blocks. M&M doesn't usually do real complex powers, so they keep it real simple. Look at the archetypes, only Cyclone has a power w/power-extras and a flaw(device) over the whole thing. The device flaw is obviously covering the whole power- they even listed Armor as the base power (which should've been super STR) to make it more obvious that this is the case.

As a rule any time a power gets something cool it's an extra and any time it gets something that sucks it's a flaw(duh). Like in this example if you put Delay, Ranged, and Area on Dimensional Travel, it wouldn't apply to Teleport for free. you'd have to add these extras to both of them.
Likewise, flaws are applied in the same way. You don't have to apply flaws from the base power to all the others if you don't want to, but it does have a certain aesthetic appeal...


Like you could write out your example like this:

Dimensional Travel +10
» Flaw : Heroic Effort
» Flaw : Limited-One Dimension
» Extra: Teleportation +10
»»»»»»»» Stunt: Extended Teleport
»»»»»»»» Flaw : Heroic Effort

The other way's just faster/easier.
There's no real reason to put a flaw on teleport since it's already down to a 1pp/rank cost by being an extra, but I see you put 2 flaws on a 2pp/rank power anyway. So you're obviously putting style first.


This power would cost the same 2pp/rank:

Dimensional Travel +10
» Extra : Passengers
» Flaw : Heroic Effort
» Flaw : Limited-One Dimension
» Extra: Teleportation +10
»»»»»»»» Stunt: Extended Teleport
»»»»»»»» Flaw : Heroic Effort
»»»»»»»» Extra: Passengers

 

[hobgoblin]

hrmf, here we go. i belvie i have seen atleast half a dusin threads like these over on the m&m forum and ill leave it at that. the basic problem is that the text, as is, can be read in more then one way and therefor we get confusion. it basicly comes from the complexity of the rules. just look at the hero system, it covers the same in greater detail and they still struggle with the same basic problem that m&m does even tho its on its 5th version...

 

[The Grackle]

Well. We'll see what Mr. Kenson says. I could be wrong; it's happened before.

In the end though, he always says the same thing: Whatever's good for your campaign is a good way to do it.