M&M stacking powers

[Stone Angel]

OK thanks so far. I really appreiciate it.

Takrysis that is insane almost though I am not sure that your PL1 guy would last so long of course there could be multiples of him? *insert maniacal laughter


The Seraph of Earth and Stone

 

[Acid_crash]

LOL that is a cool PL 1 character.

I guess I just see the abuses more in MnM than in HERO and the possibilities, but that's me. I think it's the whole metagame before the game in making the characters that bothers me about the game. I still enjoy it, but I don't find it as fun as others.

I think the reason, for HERO at least, is that the Active Point caps used are during character creation only, to make sure that no character is that superbly advanced over the others...but when the game has been played a while, and characters gain xp and use them to modify or add new powers, they are not limited by a PL that MnM characters are. That's how my games in the past have gone. In HERO (and SAS Tri-stat of course, not d20), I do not have to wait to achieve 15 xp before raising the limits, I could just do it. In MnM, I do have to wait for that 15 xp to raise my PL from 10 to 11 and then my limits are increased.

I don't know if that makes sense but that's how it seems to me. I know its a game balance reason, but sometimes it just makes sense for a PL 10 person to have a powerful magic weapon that is a Strike (sword) +15 because of it's powerful magical properties, but to say that the character can only use +10 of the +15 because of the PL, well, that's kind of bogus. And I know the workaround would be that the character could set it to a +10 Strike and each PL increase it by +1 till he's PL 15, then he has learned the full powers of it...but both can work. I know the game balance reasons behind the stacking limits, and use them because of the possible power abuse, but I think that sometimes they are too focused and sometimes limiting.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I've got a question for you AC. If you get rid of PL = Max Power Ranks, what does PL mean?

With what it means now, PL controls both maximum strength (depth in a single power), and flexibility (total points available to spend). By cutting out the first portion, I think an important section of the game is lost. How strong is the strong guy? At this point, maxed. I mean, how early do we want bricks walking around with Super Strength 20? The mecchanical benifits to not having a hard limit (or even a soft limit) are just too good in the case of some archetypes.

On the other hand, if I had a player who had the character concept of "Kid with a magical sword." And he wanted to up his weapon from +10, to +11 immedieatly, I probablly would let him rather than carefully counting the number of points he has available till he reaches the next PL. But, frankly, a magic sword that works as a weapon +10 is pretty darn awesome.

Aren't all the numbers the same sort of metagame concept though? If the power limit is 10, then a magic sword at +10 is as potent as potent gets. It's as smitey as it gets (at least without stacking some more powers on that sword, such as energy fields, or boosts), which really meets the in-game concern of "I want an awesome sword". I mean, who is to say that the 'magicalness' of this sword is at +15 instead of +10?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

MnM is VERY much a DM's Fiat sort of game. You just have to have DM concentration and control at every step of the way ... so the DM knows what the PCs are capable of, so the players know what the DM is up to. It can be one of the most fun games you play ... it can also turn into a real stinkfest and real quick.

In the case of PL caps, even Steve Kenson, the lead designer, has suggested removing PL caps in some instances and for some people's games who feel it would be better that way. Some Low-PL games could benefit from having a higher-capped game, even with the lower points. Some character concepts could do with having a higher cap as long as it's KNOWN and able to be worked with.

The PL cap is one of those things were the DM can glance through and know: "Okay, he's a brick, PL 10 ... Super-STR 10, Str 20 ... he's going to be able to blow through THIS much Armor and THESE mooks." If suddenly that PL 10 guy has 13 ranks in Super STR all of his calculations are out the window and the Brick goes stomping through the game with the other PCs following lamely behind.

But if, say, you've got the above Kid With Magic Sword ... then you're talking with the DM and agreeing to put some limits on the kid but giving him his head as far as the cap on the sword goes. That could be cool ... the SuperSTR brick can't break down this wall of Force Field the baddie set up ... but Kid Pendragon (with his amazing +1 Damage Save) hauls out Excalibur (+15) and carves a hole for the party. Give and take. As long as the DM knows its there.

--fje

 

[drnuncheon]

I know its a game balance reason, but sometimes it just makes sense for a PL 10 person to have a powerful magic weapon that is a Strike (sword) +15 because of it's powerful magical properties, but to say that the character can only use +10 of the +15 because of the PL, well, that's kind of bogus.

I'd say that the obvious solution is to not give them a sword that is powerful enough to be +15 - the same way that they can't get Telekinesis +15, or that a D&D character can't cast 5th level spells at first level. Alternately, play in a PL 15 game. Or get the GM to houserule the sword. (If you point out that you could get the same effect by boosting your strength up to 20, it just might work.)

It's sort of like complaining that you can't play Galactus in a Daredevil-type game. The sword +15 may make sense for the character, but if that's the case, then the character may not make sense for the game.

J