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M&M stacking powers

Stone Angel

First Post
Hey I just have a quick mechanics question in Mutants and Masterminds. I had my players create PL 7 characters. Okay so lets say one person takes Force Field and gets protection with 7 ranks and then has an armor that also provides protection of 7 ranks do these stack for a total of 14 or do you only count them once? The Same goes for damage. Say one has Super Strength 7 and the a weapon for 4 does this make it 11 or does the higher one superced the other?

Thanks

The Seraph of Earth and Stone
 

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drnuncheon

Explorer
Stone Angel said:
Hey I just have a quick mechanics question in Mutants and Masterminds. I had my players create PL 7 characters. Okay so lets say one person takes Force Field and gets protection with 7 ranks and then has an armor that also provides protection of 7 ranks do these stack for a total of 14 or do you only count them once?

You only count them once. The general rule is, you can't get more than your PL benefit from powers to any one roll. So Armor and Protection and Force Field and Amazing Save: Damage are all limited, in total, to the PL - but Toughness and Con aren't affected by the limit, so you could have a damage save bonus of higher than +7.

The Same goes for damage. Say one has Super Strength 7 and the a weapon for 4 does this make it 11 or does the higher one superced the other?

It'd also stop at 7 - but feats and normal strength would still add in.

If they had Super-Strength +4 and Weapon +4, they could stack them together up to +7, though - it's not just "pick the highest".

J
 

ThoughtBubble

First Post
The nice thing about having some overlap is when you fight enemies who can drain or weaken your character. With a super str of 5 and a weapon of 5, you can take three points of drain before it starts to show.

A little overlap is good for safety.
 

Acid_crash

First Post
I think that's one of the more confusing things about MnM, to me at least, is the stacking rules. You have Force Field, and you have Armor. They both offer Protection (right?)... and if both are at rank 7, you can only use one, even if you are wearing the armor and using the force field.

What if someone attacks this person with a penetrating attack to reduce the Protection by 2...does this penetrating attack work against both defenses, or just one?

The one good thing about having both is that if you are not in armor, you still have the force field. :)
 

Mordane76

First Post
I think with the errated version of Penetrating Attack, overlapping Protections would save your butt. The errated Penetrating Attack always forces you to save, regardless of Protection value, and reduces your save by two... but if you had these extra Protection values in the wings, your Protection would not be reduced by much if at all (assuming you had more than 2 points of Protection above the overlap limit), but you'd still have to save because of the feat.
 

Super Girl

First Post
No, the Errated version of the Penetrating attack feet simply forces a save, it does not subtract anything from the power's rank.
 

takyris

First Post
Personally, as a GM, I find buying lots of stacking powers so that you can never get into a situation where it doesn't work to be sort of a pain -- I won't stop somebody from doing it, but I can usually talk them out of it. A game in which nobody ever has their defenses bypassed because they spent all their points on said defenses isn't fun -- it's fairly boring, actually, unless the GM ups the ante. And I'd rather not up the ante... that results in badness, especially if people in the group do this to different extents.

On the other hand, here's an example of a character I created. She does have some overlap, although at the time, I didn't realize this (she was my first character created):

(Not statted -- no stats with me)
Basically, Super-speed +7 and Evasion, which effectively means "Amazing Save:Damage +7" unless she's denied her Dexterity bonus or saving against damage from an Area Effect attack.

On top of that, Energy Field(Cold) with Protection added to the field. The character concept was "Miss Slick, the superheroine who is able to generate a field of cold and move very quickly through an instinctive understanding of the energy source known as Reverse Friction." The field was at +6.

AS:Damage and Protection stack, so that +7 and +6 only went up to +10 -- usually, her field wasn't so strong while she was moving, so the +7 went to AS:D and she only benefitted from Protection +3. But if she was denied her Dex bonus due to being flat-footed, she'd lose the +7 and get the full +6 from her Energy Field.

Of course, I also had a character with Strike +7 (Cosmic Power) and Strike +6 (Training), which, because of stacking, only went to +10. He had glowing energy fields around his hands (Strike as a Power Stunt of Energy Blast from his Cosmic Power), and he also had years of battle training. Due to his warrior code of honor, he would at times voluntarily drop his energy field and fight someone hand-to-hand. Not often, mind you, but when he did, it was nice to have +6 instead of +3.
 


Karl Green

First Post
Penetrating attack is just one of those that I ask why? It is not well written but oh well.

In my revised book it says "Choose an attack. Targets of that attack must make a Damage Save even if the attack's damage bonus is less then the target's Protection bonus. Imprervious works nornally against Penetrating Attack"

So my reading of it is as such "My attack bonus is +7 vs. your Protection of 10, lower it to -3, so your Damage save is 15-3=12."
 

Mordane76

First Post
I'm so confused now... I give up!

I'm still miffed that Penetrating Attack is a PS, while Impervious is an Extra, unless that changed too... :D


Overall, though, I think stacking powers is a good safeguard. Taken to the extreme, it can get annoying, but another thing about it I like comes from a development standpoint. As characters with stacking powers progress to higher PLs, they will automatically come into those bonuses, sort of like a hero that has more power than they could handle in their younger days developing into that power. Also, overlapped powers hurt characters power-wise up front; they spend points on power they can't access unless one of two circumstances occur -
  • They are in a situation where their powers are drained.
  • They advance in PL.
This can hurt characters power-wise against people of equal PL that do not have overlap in their powers.
 
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