Kickstarter Made a video tutorial explaining the SAKE (Sorcerers, Adventures, Kings, and Economics) domain-building rules

SAKE ttrpg

Villager

Pre-launch page: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erers-adventures-kings-and-economics-rulebook

Meantime, SAKE Basic Edition can be freely downloaded:
DriveThru RPG: DriveThruRPG
Itch.io: SAKE (Sorcerers, Adventurers, Kings, And Economics) Basic Rules by SAKE ttrpg

SAKE (Sorcerers, Adventures, Kings, and Economics) is a TTRPG designed for Gamemasters and players who seek immersion and coherence from their game. Magic and adventuring as well as fantasy economy and kingdom governance are consistent throughout the game.

SAKE is characterized by levelless and classless characters, a player character development system, based on character personality traits and principles, a magic system inspired by real-world folklore, and an elaborate, believable economics system.

SAKE is primarily intended to portray early-modern worlds, characterized by the decline of feudalism, the rise of capitalism and the introduction of firearms.

The game allows for the play of both, the classical dungeon delving and the creation of a commercial empire.
 

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SAKE ttrpg

Villager
I was interested until I saw the art was by Midjourney AI.

Use public domain art from the 1600s and add a stretch goal of "hire an artist"

As for hiring an artist - I am one, and I try to make more and more illustrations for the final book myself (as the text itself is basically finished). The battle scene from the start of the video is 3d modelled by myself, and all the ships and castles, all sorts of maps, and equipment illustrations, in the final book will also be.

But for monsters and NPCs - I think Midjourny works pretty well for them - I can paint, but traditionally, not digitally.

Some examples:
 

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It's not the quality. It's that it's trained on other artists work who didn't consent and aren't getting paid.

What if in six months a digital artist decides to make their own monster & npc art but have ChatGPT mkUltra6 generate a TTRPG that is a mix of Japan and medieval Europe with an emphasis on economics, political structures and domains? It might spit out something similar to SAKE, possibly with the same layout and similar maps, ship's and castles because it probably will have ingested your work without your permission.

Then they put that up on DriveThru or as a kickstarter.

Same thing as your doing, but in reverse. You might have some feelings about that.

Also something I wouldn't buy.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
As for hiring an artist - I am one, and I try to make more and more illustrations for the final book myself (as the text itself is basically finished). The battle scene from the start of the video is 3d modelled by myself, and all the ships and castles, all sorts of maps, and equipment illustrations, in the final book will also be.

But for monsters and NPCs - I think Midjourny works pretty well for them - I can paint, but traditionally, not digitally.

Some examples:
Producing your own TTRPG isn't easy, and it's understandable why you and other creators decide to go with AI art.

But it's the wrong choice, IMO.

As @kigmatzomat stated, it's not about the quality of the art, it's about the ethical use of AI, or the unethical use.

Good luck to you with your Kickstarter campaign . . . there's a lot of negativity here on ENWorld regarding the use of AI art (including myself), but I'm not sure how much exists out there in the wilds. I'm not sure I'll be one of your backers either way, your game sounds interesting but not my cup of tea. But I for one will no longer support games or other products using AI art. At least, not until there is an ethically sourced AI engine, which as of yet, there isn't.
 

SAKE ttrpg

Villager
It's not the quality. It's that it's trained on other artists work who didn't consent and aren't getting paid.

What if in six months a digital artist decides to make their own monster & npc art but have ChatGPT mkUltra6 generate a TTRPG that is a mix of Japan and medieval Europe with an emphasis on economics, political structures and domains? It might spit out something similar to SAKE, possibly with the same layout and similar maps, ship's and castles because it probably will have ingested your work without your permission.

Then they put that up on DriveThru or as a kickstarter.

Same thing as your doing, but in reverse. You might have some feelings about that.

Also something I wouldn't buy.
The thing is, that I don't see AI as inherently unethical. So we just see it differently, and that OK by me.

For the example, I think it is a good example. For starters AI don't throw out exact artist works or game texts, only if you ask it it to do so. And asking AI to draw a picture of from specific artist or rewrite a game - yeah, it's problematic, but the problem comes from person asking not from the machine. But if you ask something like TTRPG with domains and Japanese+Venetian+East European aesthetics and economics, and it comes out very similar to SAKE, then of course, what's the problem. You anyway have to do a lot of work to get anything thrown out by AI usable. So after that you have your own game, yes, very similar to sake in every instance but, to be honest even without AIs help the TTRPG world is filled with games which are basically copies of larger games with some modifications. And I don't see problems with those also. To be honest I would be honoured if somebody (be it human on machine) takes inspiration from my work.

Of course, straight up coping would not be ok, but it's not ok anyway, AI involved or not.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
The thing is, that I don't see AI as inherently unethical. So we just see it differently, and that OK by me.

For the example, I think it is a good example. For starters AI don't throw out exact artist works or game texts, only if you ask it it to do so. And asking AI to draw a picture of from specific artist or rewrite a game - yeah, it's problematic, but the problem comes from person asking not from the machine. But if you ask something like TTRPG with domains and Japanese+Venetian+East European aesthetics and economics, and it comes out very similar to SAKE, then of course, what's the problem. You anyway have to do a lot of work to get anything thrown out by AI usable. So after that you have your own game, yes, very similar to sake in every instance but, to be honest even without AIs help the TTRPG world is filled with games which are basically copies of larger games with some modifications. And I don't see problems with those also. To be honest I would be honoured if somebody (be it human on machine) takes inspiration from my work.

Of course, straight up coping would not be ok, but it's not ok anyway, AI involved or not.
AI is not inherently unethical . . . but current AI tools to generate visual art and written art are very much unethical. Which is why I, and many others, will not support projects that use them.

Good luck with SAKE.
 

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