Magic in The Shadows

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I pretty much agree. I'm just getting back into SR since even before d20 so now I can compare the two systems. SR is just so different in its philosophy. Sure you can use d20 and emulate the setting but I don't think you'll ever come close to the feel of the mechanics. I don't exactly see the added value in converting anyway. I would actually argue that SR is a superior system to d20 in many ways.

SR is far inferior to the D20 system in many ways, I think. It´s only strength is the lack of levels and classes (and that might seem the biggest problem when converting to D20 - but the D20 Modern classes are generic enough to do it). But even then it has the typical problem of these systems - it´s easier to min/max characters.
The task resolution in SR might look fine at first, but you are actually quite limited in the range of sensible DCs - a single +2 modifier to a task changes a job from average difficult to nearly impossible.
And not only this fundamental mechanic is flawed in SR - the several subystems (combat, magic, cyberware, matrix, rigging) also have their flaws.

But back to "Magic in the Shadows":
Here is what we did for our D20 Modern/Shadowrun:
Basic assumption: A d6 Shadowrun Character is not a 1st level d20 hero - more like 6th level.
There is a feat required to be "awakened" and to be able to cast spells. It grants the ability to watch into the astral plane (but not project) for an action point and a limited duration, and grants a few bonus class skills.
Conjuring and Sorcery are skills.
There are Hermetician Mage, Shamanistic Mage and Ki Adept as Advanced Classes.
The Adept grants ki powers (varying in power between talents and feats), medium bab, 5+INT skill points (with a good skill list). The powers are organized in different categories, according to the different adept path (artist, athlet, combat, stealth) - if you take enough powers of a certain path.

The Mage classes grant some special abilities related to the traditions and a caster level for each level.

Spells:
Casting a spell requires a Sorcery check DC 15+spell level, good results can improve the spell effects and/or reduce drain. The spell causes drain equal to spell level x drain level. Drain is nonlethal damage if the level is below 1/2 caster level, and lethal damage if above. Drain levels come as Light (x1), Medium (x3), Serious (x5), Deadly (x7)

Example spells:
Manabolt: deals 1d8 points of damage per spell level, +1 point per caster level. Will negates. Light Drain.
(I believe that was the write up, I don´t have the documents here).
Fireball: deals 2d6 points of damage per spell level within a radious of 10 +/- 5 feet per caster level. Reflex halves, a failed save indicates that the target has caught fire. Serious drain
Flame Arrow: deals 2d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level, ranged touch attack, Medium drain.

Spirits:
Require a Conjuring check DC 10+HD, drain dependend on charisma and HD.

We ran a few test games, but we didn´t test the magic user classes as much as I would want. My "test caster" was captured after the drain knocked him out - but the whole combat went wrong for us, (We were a bit, overwhelmed, I´d say.), and it was basically just me fighting the guards ...

 

[Longshadow]

SR is far inferior to the D20 system in many ways, I think.

Gosh. Imagine my shock, dismay, and surprise at finding this statement at ENworld.

I really don't think we want to wade into qualitative judgements of system vs system (not with the pages of complaints myself and many others have vis a vis d20). What I was commenting on (and I think Glassjaw in his statement before the concluding sentence, as well) was the feel of the systems. After 15 years of running SR in three different editions, and having played and run d20 since the playtesting phase of 3.0 (oh, the stories), IMHO, SR simply doesn't translate well to d20. Different design philosophies. No harm, no foul. I had the same view on Deadlands, Fading Suns, and a couple of others. Some games just don't travel well outside the systems designed to emulate the world of that particular game. If you have fun with d20 for all gameworlds, all occasions, good for you -- it's just not a universally-held appraisal.

 

[the_dunner]

I'd tend to agree with Longshadow's comments. I'm a huge fan of the Shadowrun game world, but less so of the system. However, after considering a number of the different d20 options, and trying a few different systems, I came to a decision.

You can't duplicate Shadowrun "Look and Feel" with a different system.

There's just too many quirky things about the system that don't translate well. Be it the fairly ridiculous target number system, the essence limited cyberware system, the initiative system, all of the different magical abilities, or the decking or rigging system.

Clearly, Shadowrun does not have "the best" game system. And it's definitely not a generic system. But, if you're a fan of the universe, and you've got a hankering for the feel of the game, it's a waste of time to try and convert it to another system. The new system will end up getting in the way of role-playing, because you'll be sitting around arguing about how so many things just don't feel right.

 

[GlassJaw]

Imagine my shock, dismay, and surprise at finding this statement at ENworld

Clearly, Shadowrun does not have "the best" game system

LOL, oh the horror!!

I definitely don't think SR is the "best" system (whatever that means) but it is superios to d20 in some ways and d20, in turn, is superior in others. If nothing else, the SR is the most unique. It's designed for the SR and the SR world only. Plus I'm a litlte burned out with D&D and 20 so it's a very refreshing alternative to me, so take that for what it's worth.

I still definitely agree can't be translated to d20, as hard as you may try. Sorry fellas. :\

 

[dropshadow]

I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a "SR is not to be converted thread". SR is a superior system in a lot of ways. Right now I'm not looking for complexity I just want an easy system to run SR in

Wulf, thanks for the advice on fetishes, that will go along way on my conversion. I hope to have Grim Tales today. Oh the agony of waiting!

Some other great info, thanks for the help guys.

 

[GlassJaw]

I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a "SR is not to be converted thread".

Well unfortunately, most of these threads do. The thing is, many people have tried to convert SR to d20. It has been discussed a bunch in here. The reason it continually gets discussed over and over again is that no one (from what I've seen) has pulled it off successfully.

The common conclusion is either 1) the realization that it will take a mountain of time to do and 2) you're better off just learning the SR and using that.

I don't know what else to tell you. If you have access to the search function, see if you can find some similar discussions. Otherwise, just browse through the previous pages, I know there are some SR discussions around.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

SR is far inferior to the D20 system in many ways, I think

Gosh. Imagine my shock, dismay, and surprise at finding this statement at ENworld.

Don´t misunderstand me, please
My comment was only refering to the rule mechanics, not the background. I love the Shadowrun story. Shadowrun was my first roleplaying experience, and the world was and is simply great...

 

[Longshadow]

Don´t misunderstand me, please

S'okay, I understood your statement.

I also quite understand people who can love a setting and feel less than enthusiastic about the mechanics. 1st ed SR had some serious problems, especially in the damage staging and inconsistent resistances for spell defending. Second ed fixed a lot of that (much faster and deadlier combat, for example), and 3rd ed fixed even more (better initiative mechanics, IMHO). My only complaint about the system now is that secondary subsystems have become too bloated in details -- I really don'y care to have to review multiple chapters in non-core books or pore through charts in half-a-dozen different sources just to run a simple encounter. I'm pretty flexible, but when in doubt I almost always default to the simple core rules way of dealing with something unless I have a VERY good reason to do otherwise.

My comments to dropshadow weren't knocking his conversion efforts, either -- nor knocking d20 (though I could spend hours doing that). They were representing my belief that d20 simply doesn't address the combat and magic , umm, realities (for lack of a better term) as presented in the setting material. If he can find a way to do that within d20, more power to him. If he can simply dispense with those elements and still feel comfortable adapting from the rest of the setting, well, I'm glad for him, but I wouldn't call it SR d20 at that point.

 

[Emiricol]

Any D20 vs SR debate is, imho, ultimately pointless. They bear no resemblance at all, other than the fact that they both use dice and are RPGs. Personally I love SR setting (or used to anyway) and disliked the mechanics, which blatantly favored the fast guy with the shotgun in just about any combat situation.

But I wouldn't even try to convert SR to D20. Not sure about other systems, but definitely not D20.

YMMV etc.

 

[sinmissing]

I disliked the mechanics, which blatantly favored the fast guy with the shotgun in just about any combat situation.

And this is wrong how?