Magic Item Economy - alternatives?

[Mercurius]

A common complaint about 4E is the magic item economy, presumably the crazy inflation of cost at higher levels.

In our group we have gone from a single DM (me) to rotating duties among 2-4 of us. Transitioning from single to multi DMs has some unforeseen, albeit minor, consequences, in particular the implementation of house rules and the challenge of some kind of consistency with DM rulings. The current DM and myself have been trying to hammer down some house rules for magic items, such as: Only Heroic tier items can be purchased in shops except by DM's discretion; magic items can be "enhanced" by paying the difference between the current level and the level of the new enhancement - it is also possible to add new powers in a similar fashion. And so on.

But one thing we're struggling with is the cost of magic items, which is at complete odds with a more "realistic" economy in a fantasy world. Obviously higher level items should be much more expensive, but that much more?

So what I'm looking for are alternatives to the magic item economy. What do you do? Is there a formula that you use for cost or do you just use the RAW and don't mind the fact that you could buy 1,736 +2 swords for the same price of a single +6 vorpal weapon? Is that OK? Not OK? Alternatives?

The main thing is not really the purchase of items as finding a Paragon or Epic item for sale should be virtually possible, but how much it costs to enhance an item, that is to increase its power from one level to another. On one hand, the current costs are completely prohibitive unless we start doling out massive bundles of cash; on the other hand, they do keep PCs from buying or enhancing items way beyond their level.

Thoughts?

 

[Dausuul]

The only reason for the insane high-end prices is to keep high-level items from being purchased in magic shops by low-level PCs. If there are no high-level items in magic shops, you can scale down the costs without trouble. Something like 1,000 gp per level of the item might be about right. Item creation/upgrading by the PCs themselves isn't an issue; the Enchant Magic Item ritual won't let you create anything above your own level.

The only danger is that the PCs might find a high-level wizard and cajole said wizard into making stuff for them. However, this is like hiring Albert Einstein to tutor you in high school physics. Albert Einstein has better things to do with his time.

Rituals are a tougher issue. Since ritual costs are not standardized the way magic item prices are, you'd have to adjust them on a case-by-case basis, or apply some kind of percentage adjustment based on ritual level.

 

[Ryujin]

One thing that I've been considering, in place of the 'magic economy', is to go to a low magic campaign with the inherent bonus system. Creation of magic items would become the sole purview of the DM. The scarce magic items would then effectively only provide properties and powers. They might, perhaps, provide a whole +1 to hit.

At that point you can largely throw out the magic economy. Giving the characters money might have them swimming in consumables and able to buy that keep they always wanted, but it doesn't so a whole lot to unbalance your world. Monty Hall be damned.

 

[Neonchameleon]

My take on this is that the difference is of the order of the difference in wealth between a third world villiager and Bill Gates. And damn right you can't buy really high end gear in shops in the middle of nowhere. If you were to walk into an ordinary magic shop with an Astral Diamond, they might be able to give you change.

But honestly? I use the inherent bonus rules from DMG2/Dark Sun. That way the big 3 keep up. And the best way to buy (or sell) paragon tier magic items is through a broker - and they will come looking for you rather than the other way round. Even a 1% commission is an enormous sum of money at high paragon. Tell them what you want, put the money in escrow, and with luck they will be back a week later (the smart ones know better than to try to rob you). Just take care - the market is small enough that you might be indirectly trading with some of the villains.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Obviously higher level items should be much more expensive, but that much more?

For comparison:

Entry-level Epiphone "Les Paul" style guitar $165 (new).
Epiphone Les Paul Special II (Heritage Cherry Sunburst) | Sweetwater.com


Mid-level Epiphone "Les Paul" style guitar $499 (new).
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plain Top (Heritage Cherry Burst) | Sweetwater.com

Entry-level Gibson "Les Paul" guitar $539 (new).
Gibson Les Paul Melody Maker (Les Paul Satin White) | Sweetwater.com

"Signature" Gibson "Les Paul" guitar $12,499 (new).
Gibson Custom Don Felder "Hotel California" (59 Les Paul Signed) | Sweetwater.com

Gibson Goldtop stoptail "Les Paul" guitar $55,000 (1953).
Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Stoptail 1953 - Chicago Music Exchange

Anf that's without getting into the seriously expensive guitars, like ones that had the provenance of verifiably being owned by some famous guitarist (which can crack the $1M mark). So, yes, it's entirely conceivable that highly desirable magic items could cost "that much more."

 

[Dausuul]

For comparison:

Entry-level Epiphone "Les Paul" style guitar $165 (new).
Epiphone Les Paul Special II (Heritage Cherry Sunburst) | Sweetwater.com


Mid-level Epiphone "Les Paul" style guitar $499 (new).
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plain Top (Heritage Cherry Burst) | Sweetwater.com

Entry-level Gibson "Les Paul" guitar $539 (new).
Gibson Les Paul Melody Maker (Les Paul Satin White) | Sweetwater.com

"Signature" Gibson "Les Paul" guitar $12,499 (new).
Gibson Custom Don Felder "Hotel California" (59 Les Paul Signed) | Sweetwater.com

Gibson Goldtop stoptail "Les Paul" guitar $55,000 (1953).
Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Stoptail 1953 - Chicago Music Exchange

First, the book prices are not just price to buy the item--they're prices to make the item. A PC seeking to craft a 30th-level item is going to have to shell out just as much cash as a PC seeking to buy one in a store, which implies that the price is mostly materials rather than labor (an odd thing when you consider the labor has to be done by a 30th-level wizard, but never mind). I have no doubt the materials that go into a Les Paul are costly; I find it hard to believe they cost $55 grand.

Second, verisimilitude aside, these prices have a direct impact on how things play out in the game. Going by the book, epic-level PCs can buy small cities with their pocket change. If that's how you want it to be, great... but if you don't want PCs adopting Richie Rich tactics when dealing with regular mortals, changes are in order.

 

[Lordhawkins9]

re: Guitars

Not really a valid comparison. A lot of the price comes from "handmade" this and that which takes a bunch of time, or something unique. A wizards can whip out the biggest baddest magic item in an afternoon.

At the upper levels, the gold required to actually buy one of the upper level magic items would exceed the wealth of a king and the difference between the +5 version and that +6 version is petty.

 

[malraux]

My opinion: first and foremost, wealth is the xp system for your gear. With that in mind, I find it no weirder that you can buy a bunch of +2 sword for the price of a +6 weapon, than going to level 26 from level 25 could "buy" 100 level 2s. I suspect that to make the game work, some form of non-linearity is required, be it parabolic or exponential.

Also, to follow Dannyalcatraz, a good basic chef's knife (Victorinox Fibrox Chef's Knife) would cost you ~30 bucks. A good mass produced japanese steel knife (global/shun/etc) is about 120 bucks, so about 4 times as much. A custom built super hard knife is going to be $500-$2000. So yeah, scales like that happen in real life as well.

 

[S'mon]

Item costs are used to regulate item creation and commission/purchase. You can disallow item creation & purchase by PCs and have all items be found or gifted. Then you can ignore the item costs. This is how eg BECMI D&D did it. This approach can be used with or without the inherent bonuses system.

 

[S'mon]

First, the book prices are not just price to buy the item--they're prices to make the item. A PC seeking to craft a 30th-level item is going to have to shell out just as much cash as a PC seeking to buy one in a store, which implies that the price is mostly materials rather than labor (an odd thing when you consider the labor has to be done by a 30th-level wizard, but never mind). .

No, per the Enchant Item ritual the 4e PC does NOT craft anything, they merely cast an Enchant Item spell (which takes 1 hour AIR), burn a bunch of Residuum (etc) and turn a mundane item into the desired magic item. This is why it costs so much; the PC is using raw power/energy sans any actual skill or craft.