Magic Item Wish List????

[evilbob]

Just wanted to chime in and say I agree with the majority of posters in this thread: due to the specificity of 4.0 items and the massive amount of rules and playstyles and new features being introduced all the time, it's effectively almost impossible to stay on top of all of your PC's "best possible items" lists without their help. I have tried doing it myself and it will easily quadruple your prep time. For as many time-saving mechanics that 4.0 has, loot distribution almost makes up for all of them by being a huge time sink.

It's annoying, sure - especially since PCs typically aren't used to doing this work and they would probably rather be surprised. But frankly, that's just not a luxury they can have anymore. Well, at least until enough new books are introduced with items that are so much better than the others that everyone just gets them - like Iron Armbands of Power for a melee fighter, for instance. That's one arm-slot item you'll never have to think about again.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

It's annoying, sure - especially since PCs typically aren't used to doing this work and they would probably rather be surprised. But frankly, that's just not a luxury they can have anymore. Well, at least until enough new books are introduced with items that are so much better than the others that everyone just gets them - like Iron Armbands of Power for a melee fighter, for instance. That's one arm-slot item you'll never have to think about again.

I think you can still surprise them though. For one, not every person is going to have one "best item" in each category that they'll just want higher and higher level versions of. Like me? I don't really care much about gloves or boots. Cloaks, I have a few ideas, but nothing concrete.

In those cases, you could probably get away with surprise items without disappointing anyone. If I got boots of wall-walking, cool, I'll use them. Boots of charging (or whatever they're called), I'll use those too. Doesn't really matter.

For the main items though (weapons, armor, neck) you could try eliciting a few suggestions. Then, look at those suggestions and pick one, or see if you can come up with something similar that works well too. Like if they had Blackiron Armor on the list, I don't think they'd be upset over receiving Flamedrinker instead. Sure, it's not resistant to Necrotic, but it's a LOT more resistant to flame, so it still goes along with part of their wish.

Another thing that might help is to make/go over these lists as a group. Prior to a game, have everyone sit down and talk about the things that they want. Two players might find that they both want the same item, and that therefore it's redundant. For example, I want the Cincture of the Dragon Spirit because I'm trained in Intimidate but don't have a high Charisma score. We also have a Dragonborn Pally in our party, and if he wanted that too I might rather he end up with it, and I'll try for a Healer's Sash since I have a LOT more surges to give away.

Even if we don't come to that consensus at the table, it allows the DM to make more informed decisions. He might notice that we both have those items on our lists and just drop both of them during the game, allowing us to choose who gets what.

 

[Mengu]

I have an opposing stance on this, at least for the game I'm running. I know my players' characters as well as they do if not better. But there is more. I know what they are going to be facing. This prior knowledge makes me the best qualified person at the table to provide them with the items they need. For instance, if they are going to be fighting a bunch of undead and necromancers, I'll give them items that boost some radiant powers, and resist some necrotic damage.

This also makes it a lot easier for me to remove items I don't want them to use without having to keep a list of them. It makes it easier for me to keep player equipment balanced since not all of them are system masters, and most of them wouldn't know what to ask for. Besides, how else would I be able to create magic items specific to my campaign? My players don't know these, and couldn't be expected to wish for them.

When I give items, I also try to create situations where the item might shine for a moment. I try to make sure no one person is stacked with a bunch of items that have daily powers, since in order to be able to use 5 items with daily powers, you'll need to go through 9 encounters. Not likely. So I spread out the items with simple properties, or encounter powers among the party.

Also when I plant equipment in the treasure pile, I usually have an idea who will end up with the item, but not always. There are 2 people in the party who wear leather armor, 2 people who use heavy shields, and two people who use holy symbols. And some of the neck/waist/etc slot items can be worn by anyone. So I let the party dynamics work out the distribution.

I realize for a DM who doesn't want to spend the time, coming up with an item list is a lot easier when they have a wish list. So I think each DM/group will have to make their own decission on whether they want to use wish lists or not. If I was running a living FR campaign or some such where I had a revolving door of a dozen players, who could have a half dozen different DM's, wish lists would be the only way to go.

 

[Regicide]

Wish lists are vital. My players keep forgetting to give me one. As a result, stuff happens like last game, when I gave them a Flamedrinker shield (a pretty impressive item for a party that just hit level 3). Only problem -- the only shield user in the party is a tiefling. Hopefully this will encourage at least that one player to keep a wishlist updated.

Well, you can look at it this way, you can now give them 4 other items they don't want, and they can sell the 5 of them and buy an item they do want!

 

[Nytmare]

I have an opposing stance on this, at least for the game I'm running. I know my players' characters as well as they do if not better. But there is more. I know what they are going to be facing. This prior knowledge makes me the best qualified person at the table to provide them with the items they need. For instance, if they are going to be fighting a bunch of undead and necromancers, I'll give them items that boost some radiant powers, and resist some necrotic damage.

That's the thing though, a wishlist is not necessarily what the players are going to find. There were plenty of Christmases were Santa brought me his interpretation of what was on my list, or what he knew my parents were ok with me having.

None of my presents ever had batteries or made really obnoxious noises, and I still never got that vorpal holy avenger I had my heart set on.

 

[Smeelbo]

In our campaign so far, while previously over tight-fisted, has given my Dwarf Ranger everything he has asked for, in order (+1 Paired Waraxe, Delver Hide Armor, and Distance Handaxe). On the other hand, I help him out a lot, helping the players with their character sheets and tactics, covering for him when he doesn't show, making suggestions on rulings, penalties, and rewards.

I am not sure what I think about this. Now I have the minimum items to make my build do what I envisioned it would do, and that is good.

I do think the DM needs to pay attention to player wish lists, but not necessary hand out every request, especially the comboliscious ones. But by examining the list, he make sure the treasure is satisfying to the players.

Smeelbo

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Yeah, but now that you got all the necessary equipment out of the way he can give you boots of wall walking or something. You'll be like "WTF? Who wants these?" and perhaps someone will find a neat for use for them. The players don't need to have EVERY item outlined, and they don't need to get EVERY item they asked for.

 

[evilbob]

I know my players' characters as well as they do if not better.

I think this pretty much sums up the "con" argument well: if you already know the characters and what works for them and have the time to look through all the books and find something for each of them, then you're not going to need wishlists. Personally, I don't have the time, nor do I care to know those characters as well as the players - so wishlists are required.

 

[Falstyr]

The entire economy is different from 3.x versions. In my eyes it made quite a difference. Just look at the money rewards offered for quests. No longer do you get 1.5platinum pieces offered at lvl4, but more along the lines of 800-1000gp for a 5PC party at lvl 4. In most pre-made campaigns the XP and monetary rewards for a quest are pretty similar.

As for other rewards during quests, procession of a lvl, I find it a lot of administration to keep track of it. And there is always so much I that looks interesting for both the story and the PC that it becomes difficult to choose. Wish lists from the players will make it a lot easier to choose. And the use of treasure parcels makes sure that the wishlist is valid for about 4-5 levels. It's not like 1 PC gets lvl 5 magic items each level, but gets different leveled items during several levels.

The way you can easily plan ahead with encounters/xp distribution makes it quite simple to decide which item will be given at what time. Making it easy to adjust monsters/foes in the adventure to carry that item without unbalancing the encounter. Because in most of the earlier pre-made adventures the distribution of items isn't that well done I feel.

Another money sink is the usual buying/selling of magical items. But in that case I personally prefer only to trade magical/alchemical items with a limited use or are bags of holding. Armor/weapons are still pretty hard to come by in shops and should be in my opinion. When I throw in magical/alchemical items in an adventure which have limited use like exploding bags I don't count them as lvl magic items for a PC, but I will take the monetary value out of the treasure parcel thoug. Like a wand of healing with limited charges will replace all healing potions that would normally be given...as per example of course.

Often I use an online random treasure generator and refresh it a few times. It'll show items which I hadn't even thought of, but could be interesting to insert into the adventure. And if they can find an interesting way to use it...well that'll make things more interesting than always giving exactly what they need when they need it.

 

[Mulgorath]

Blended Approach

I've taken a blended approach to treasure distribution. In my mind, having piles of treasure turn up like they've been delivered by UPS just doesn't work... Player: "Ah, here's the Boots of Striding that I ordered. Wow free shipping". It disturbs the suspension of disbelief a little too much for me to stomach.

What I have done is to give out items based on what I think fits with the characters and individuals sitting around the table. By way of example, I've got a player that runs a warforged Warlock that can't roll dice to save his life. To alleviate his frustration, I created a magic item that boosted his chances to hit. I've also mixed in items that weren't specific to an individual - some that were likely to be sold at some point. What is interesting though is that sometimes items get linked to characters that their players wouldn't have chosen for themselves. I'm thinking of a figurine of power that the party's fighter has kept, despite a chance to sell it at a premium.

The blended part of the approach comes into play every few levels. As part of a story reward, I've allowed the PCs to specify items that they would like to receive. When the PCs save the city, its grateful leaders arrange for a few magic items (of appropriate level) to be crafted specifically for the PCs. This approach means that the players get something specific to them on a semi-regular basis and there's a concrete reward for heroism. It advances the plot, gives the victorious PCs something to remind them of their victory and gives the players a chance to browse the magic item catalogue now and again. I've found that the players answer pretty quickly with what they want, and it avoids the UPS flavour of giving the players items on a wish list as part of loot found in the dungeon of Krugg the Goblin.

The other thing that I've done is to give players/characters a chance to buy and sell at a premium price as part of a story reward. When the PCs save the daughter of a noble from a grisly death, he uses his connections to secure a one time transaction in which items can be sold for more than they would fetch normally and items can be purchased at a discounted price. This reduces the transactional cost of swapping one item for another item of similar level. With this approach, the game balance is still preserved and the logic holds up to scrutiny. If the PCs buy or sell items on the street, they'll deal with the exchange rates in the PHB or Adventurers Vault. Again, this is a way of bringing the magic item selections back in line with what players want, without throwing away any semblance of realism.