Magic items in found treasure

[Stockdale]

Otaining treasure as the adventure progresses is part of the fun for players. Some risk, some reward. I would not incorporate your treasure until the end of the adventure idea in any campaign I run. However, the concept of changing treasure to suit your (DM's) fancy is nonething new. A redistribution of treasure in the adventure is solely at your discretion. I would only ensure that when changing the 10 +1 items to something else that the risk-reward factors remains the same. Higher risk, greater reward.

 

[philreed]

The history behind object is definitely a cool thing to do, but first you have to reduce the amount of objects to do that in practice...

Well, there are already sources for lots of items with descriptions and histories.

101 items here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=300

Another 101 here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=716

12 masterwork weapons here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2706

12 articles of clothing here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2797

And on and on and on . . .

I think Ronin Arts has released over 500 different items (including spellbooks and mundane books) with descriptions and histories.

 

[diaglo]

a spin on the idea for white plume mountain is a great idea for some of the more powerful items...some guy collects powerful items and tries to get people to recover them...

he even leaks the rumor of where to find them...

in turn he collects their items off their dead bodies...

and so on

now he doesn't have to adventure. he just waits like a spider in a web...

maybe if you like drow you could even make him a drider...

 

[spectre72]

My big problem with with combining all fo those +1 items into a bigger item is the ability to exponentionally increase the power level of a campaign.

There are 2 sides to this argument...

I know that players don't need/want all of those +1 items, but items of low power should be the most common since they are the easiest to make and cost the least. Also in this same tone is that players are looking for items that help them.

As a DM I look at it in the light that the people who died and left those items you have found were trying to augment themselves and not you. So even though players get tired of finding things that do not boost them as they wish that is part of life.

In our game we run with a lower item level than is standard (acording to others I have spoken with) and find that +1 and +2 items are a huge find. There are no magic shops dotting the landscape, and commisioning a magic item is costly and time consuming.

I understand the frustration about finding all of that low power "Junk", but if you go to giving out +3 swords instead of 3 +1 swords I think you will see the power level in the game jump considerably.

 

[Schmoe]

Li, I tend to agree that a host of minor magical items gets boring quickly. I run a homebrew campaign and design all of my own adventures, so I tend to place fewer, more interesting treasures than those indicated by general guidelines. When the players defeat NPC's, they'll often get the NPC gear, which usually consists of more minor items, but placed treasures are rarer.

To those who feel that each magic item needs individual history, I disagree. IMHO, in a world where there are thousands of 5th level fighters (mercenaries, soldiers-of-fortune, adventurers, personal guards, etc.), there will be thousands of +1 swords. Sure, each one has a history, but do you really care that Bob the mercenary finally saved enough gold to purchase an enchanted sword, which he fought with for several years before coming to his demise fighting orcs on the Great Wastes, and that's why the orc war-chief had it?

It seems to me that the biggest problem is that the description of the swords is very generic and unimaginative. It would seem much less artificial if "+1" swords were known as something more descriptive. Even something as simple as "battle-hardened" for +1 and "supreme" for +5 would go a long way. Instead of having a +1 sword, you have a "battle-hardened sword". Instead of having a +5 sword, you have a "supreme sword."

 

[Pielorinho]

You could also approach it from the opposite end of things: finding the exact item you're looking for takes awhile. Say, 1 day per 1,000 g.p. in value, on a successful Appraise check DC 15. The check gets modified upwards or downwards by how common the item is: finding a wand of cure light wounds is significantly easier than finding a wand of erase, for example. You obviously can't find an item at all in a community that doesn't have items of that wealth, and often rare items won't exist in a community even if they come under the wealth limit (so that some towns may have a wealth limit of 10,000, but still not have a +1 screaming spiked chain, or a +1 keen falchion, or a +1 spellstoring whip, for example).

If you make acquiring items somewhat time-consuming, players may decide to learn to use the items they have.

I love creating weird and interesting magic items, and it's really frustrating when the players strip away the description, look at the stats, and decide to sell the item in favor of a +2 longsword.

Daniel

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Isn't anybody else bored about the random treasure or the found items in published adventures?

After the first 2-3 levels, it's more than 90% of the times completely useless for the party. You find +1 weapons and armors when your characters are already looking for +3, and the same goes with the ubiquitous rings of protection and cloaks of resistance...

The consequence is always the same: load you bags full of that magic stuff (because it's still the largest part of the money you'll get) until you go back to town, sell everything at half price and buy whatever you want.

YES! This is called "grinding" and is a negative feature of Angband, Diablo and even Baldur's Gate. It's one of the biggest problems of 3e, IMO.

You could spread out the treasure, so that NPCs get more and monsters get none or virtually none (helps smooth out some balance concerns, too) but, seriously, that's a big hassle, especially since you won't always know beforehand just how many classed NPCs you might use.

I believe that adventure publishers are following the rules guidelines when planning this random treasure, but that's plain boring. The net result (expect at very low levels) is that you are getting an equipment worth just a little more than half the total. Is that intentional?

Even if it gave out the total amount that it's supposed to, selling it devalues the treasure. I think you need to retain 85% of treasure value to get the appropriate amount of PC gear, but that's very hard to do.

 

[Schmoe]

I agree, making it difficult to find certain items means that players are much more likely to use the items they find, if they can. Plus, it makes sense. More valuable items are more valuable because they are ... rarer! I've recently begun to assume that characters will be able to find pretty much anything that is worth no more than ~20-25% of the community's GP limit. To find anything more, the PC's need to hunt and search for the item.

For the most recent visit to town, I asked all of the players what sort of valuable items they are looking for, so that I can plan ahead of time what items of interest will be available. I've also set up an item broker, who will track down requests for rare items, for a fee.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

You could also approach it from the opposite end of things: finding the exact item you're looking for takes awhile. Say, 1 day per 1,000 g.p. in value, on a successful Appraise check DC 15. The check gets modified upwards or downwards by how common the item is: finding a wand of cure light wounds is significantly easier than finding a wand of erase, for example.

I've got a system that I use to do this - selling off chunks of treasure can be made an adventure in itself, but its not something you want to do too often. If anyone wants I can dig it up and post it.

I also use the 50% of value as a starting point and let someone use an appropriate skill check to try and up the selling price.

I've always been vaguely dissatisfied with the 3.0/3.5 treasure system. I'd love to see someone come up with a totally different system that would work. In the meantime, I try to make sure that at least some of the items of treasure that the PC's find have real usefulness to the PC's and are interesting by themselves. I also don't beat myself up too much about the PC's finding stuff they can't use - let them sell it!

To get away from the disposable magic item issue, you could use one of the various "spend XP to improve item" systems out there. I like it when the PC can have a item from 1st level that gets better as they do.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Diaglo, yep, got that issue and tried that method. Unfortunatly my players didn't care for it. They seemed to feel cheated since "so in so got theirs first and is further along in its powers".

My initial response was to say tough, since that player put a lot of XP and time into leveling the item. But it meant those that didn't lagged behind in item power since they wouldn't spend the XP. But since the potential was there in the item, I could give out items like normal without potentially unbalancing in the other direction. :\

I could have removed the potential from the items I suppose, but I was trying to breathe some life into the items, and have a fighter that didn't use 15 magic swords throughout their career.

My group has shrunk quite a bit from that episode as players dropped for the percieved unfairness. I may give it another shot since those that are left were the ones that "got it" last time. Then again, maybe I'll try to find something different..

-Ashrum