Magic Jar and the Tarrasque

[Ellie_the_Elf]

Hi all,

My PCs (all 18th-20th level) have recently learned the Tarrasque is due to wake up some time in the next few days and are preparing to go and fight it..

I've just learned of their new plan for killing the thing, and am not sure if it would work- can anyone clear this one up?

Their basic plan is to use limited wishes from one caster to reduce it's will save, then another caster will attempt to possess it using magic jar. They are capable to repeating this several times if the first attempt fails (I've calculated they'll have a 50/50 chance of Big T failing their DC for the magic jar, once it's save is lowered but they don't know that)

Once they've managed to possess it, the possessing mage plans to voluntarily lower 'his' (ie the tarrasques) spell resistance and then stand doing nothing, allowing the party to throw everything they've got at it.

Now I can't see anything in the rules that would prevent this from working...is there something I'm missing? Also where does spell resistance come in with magic jar- is it rolled when possession is attempted? We are still playing 3.0 if that affects things at all.

I would appreciate any help anyone can give on this

Leisa.

 

[shilsen]

Their basic plan is to use limited wishes from one caster to reduce it's will save, then another caster will attempt to possess it using magic jar. They are capable to repeating this several times if the first attempt fails (I've calculated they'll have a 50/50 chance of Big T failing their DC for the magic jar, once it's save is lowered but they don't know that)

Note that the spell description specifically says that if the creatures saves, then "the target automatically succeeds at further saving throws if you attempt to possess its body again". So no multiple tries with the same spell. I'd allow a new try with another casting of magic jar, however.

Once they've managed to possess it, the possessing mage plans to voluntarily lower 'his' (ie the tarrasques) spell resistance and then stand doing nothing, allowing the party to throw everything they've got at it.

Assuming he does possess it, that still wouldn't work, IMO. According to the 3.0 errata, you can't activate the body's Ex abilities. Since SR is an EX ability, I would say it would just remain "always on", since the possessor can't exert any control over it.

Now I can't see anything in the rules that would prevent this from working...is there something I'm missing? Also where does spell resistance come in with magic jar- is it rolled when possession is attempted? We are still playing 3.0 if that affects things at all.

SR would be rolled when possession is attempted. If the spellcaster fails to get through the tarrasque's SR the first time, I'd say he has to cast the spell again to make another try. And SR applies against the original limited wish too.

Hope that helps. Nice creative idea, by your players, I must say. Mainly because magic jarring a tarrasque is the kind of approach I'd take

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

That helps a lot, thanks!

I knew I didn't have the whole thing with the SR right- but I couldn't remember why!

I was impressed by the idea too- especially since the player who came up with it is a D&D newbie (only been playing for about 3 months in total, he joined our game when everyone was around 15th level)

Leisa.

 

[Fieari]

Wait a minute... by the SRD SR entry...

SPELL RESISTANCE
Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature. The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. Include any adjustments to your caster level to this caster level check.

The Spell Resistance entry and the descriptive text of a spell description tell you whether spell resistance protects creatures from the spell. In many cases, spell resistance applies only when a resistant creature is targeted by the spell, not when a resistant creature encounters a spell that is already in place.

The terms “object” and “harmless” mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless. In such a case, you do not need to make the caster level check described above.

Bold for emphasis. This suggests that it IS possible to voluntarily lower your SR. Otherwise creatures with SR would never (or very rarely) be the recipiant of a BENEFICIAL spell...

 

[weiknarf]

Wait a minute... by the SRD SR entry...



Bold for emphasis. This suggests that it IS possible to voluntarily lower your SR. Otherwise creatures with SR would never (or very rarely) be the recipiant of a BENEFICIAL spell...

You can lower your SR. However shilsen was saying that if the party wizard possessed the Tarrasque, he/she could not lower the Tarrasque's SR because it is an Ex ability.

 

[blargney the second]

I say let it work...

Then you'll have a ghost tarrasque to play with.
-blarg

 

[shilsen]

Wait a minute... by the SRD SR entry...



Bold for emphasis. This suggests that it IS possible to voluntarily lower your SR. Otherwise creatures with SR would never (or very rarely) be the recipiant of a BENEFICIAL spell...

What weiknarf said I said

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You can lower your SR. However shilsen was saying that if the party wizard possessed the Tarrasque, he/she could not lower the Tarrasque's SR because it is an Ex ability.

I just don´t think it should work that way - it would mean you have still access to the Ex abilities of such a creature, if they´re usually on, and I don´t think that is how it is supposed to work.

 

[Felix]

You can lower your SR. However shilsen was saying that if the party wizard possessed the Tarrasque, he/she could not lower the Tarrasque's SR because it is an Ex ability.

Does the mage gain access to Ex abilities when he magic jars the T? I believe so. (short on time to look up the SRD)

If the mage gains access to SR, can he raise and lower it. Yes, he can.

So really the question is, what does the spell say about getting the target's abilities? If he get Ex abilities, mage gets SR, mage can lower SR.

...If nobody else looks the spell up, I will when I get a chance....

 

[Matafuego]

If you can't activate the EX abilities... is the SR on or off???
or is SR "always on"?