Magic like the real world

[RangerWickett]

I don't want magic like literature. I want magic like the magic people believe in. Are there any systems that model this well? Anything d20 compatible? The issue I can see is that most magic powers would just not be able to work in a ruleset; magic just works if the fates (GM) thinks it ought to.

I'm trying to think of something for d20 modern. Maybe have magic skills, one skill for each classical school of D&D magic. You roll to cast spells - pick a spell, set the DC, and see if you can pull it off, regardless of character level? I don't know if it would work.

 

[Crothian]

Well, first off you need to decide which people you want the magic to work like. There are quite a few different interpretations of how magic works in the real world.

 

[Turanil]

Magic like the real world

Extremely simple: suppress any spell and spellcasting class. Then, seers, psychics, and the like must have Bluff as a class skill, and often Deceitful Belief as a feat.

Oh well... magic in the "real" world? This is essentially the summoning of incorporeal spirits (all cultures and traditions). Add to this rituals to affect weather (I have read about a Tibetan lama to call for a snowstorm), as well as spells to influence people (generally fall in love with X or get an illness). Then, psychics (different from magic) genrally have powers of clairvoyance and healing, but not much more.

 

[talien]

Try this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1556343604/michaeltrescaA

Authentic Thaumaturgy
# Paperback: 144 pages
# Publisher: Steve Jackson Games; 2 edition (November, 1998)
# ISBN: 1556343604

It's ah...complex.

Quote from a review:

This is written as a guide by a self-styled Real World Magician on how to translate the magic he knows of into gaming terms. Bearing in mind this is his perspective, and that what is "real" is not necessarily the best thing, this is actually a useful book.

He basically goes into magical laws (of which Murphy's has been included), the relationship between magic and psionics (see The Psionics Handbook for D&D3 for a similar view), cultural references, and, finally, a rump magic system that's very calculation-intensive.

 

[Umbran]

The thing is - in order to fit into the real world, magic must be subtle. What parts of "magic" that haven't already been explained are still flying below the radar of science, right? So, the effect produced must generally be explainable as something other than "magic".

What you're looking at is a world like White Wolf's Mage: the Ascension, where casters are strongly restricted to "coincidental" magic.

 

[Stormborn]

If you are interested in magic theory then yes get Authentic Thaumaturgy, or its non gaming counter part Real Magic. A warning, complex doesn't even begin to describe it.

You could check out "Magic- The Science and Art of Causing Change" by 93 games. It attempts to do what you have described. It looks good, but I haven't actually used it or spent a lot of time mentally "play testing" it so I can't comment on the results.

Let's see, I believe Old Drew Id was running a d20 Modern game called Medallions that had Voo Doo and some other magic types in it. You could ask around.

 

[diaglo]

Blackleaf died because of me -- Marcie

 

[der_kluge]

Blackleaf died because of me -- Marcie

That's ok. She was weak, and not ready for REAL power.

 

[der_kluge]

I think one simple exercise would be to go through the spell lists and remove anything with obvious magical effects.

So, things like magic missile, burning hands, and fireball would be right out.

Detect/read magic, identify, charm person, enthrall, the various buff spells, would all remain.

Some of them you'd just have to make a value judgment on, like invisibility. It's subtle, but obvious.

That would be a relatively easy solution to keep magic more or less in-tact, but to make it more mundane.

 

[Rel]

This topic has actually been on my mind a bit lately as I've been reading the latest Alvin Maker book by Orson Scott Card ("The Crystal City"). I highly recommend this series.

It poses a sort of alternative history of America where there is a lot of folk magic. People don't really cast spells so much as have "knacks". At the upper end of power there are knacks like Alvin's "makery" (he's the seventh son of a seventh son and thus powerful) who can change materials from one to another, shape things with ease (his profession early on was that of a smith), heal people and speak to animals. Alvin's wife is a "torch" who can see the likely course of events based on a given set of actions. Others have lesser knacks like Attorney Verily Cooper who can see just how things fit together (or don't) which helps him in the practice of both law and barrel making. In the current book there is Dead Mary who can touch people and tell how they're going to die. There is very much a feel that knacks are a double edged sword that often help you with your profession but sometimes burden you with information that you are powerless to do anything about.

Other cultures have magic that manifests itself in different ways. Voodoo is practiced down in New Orleans (or Neuvo Barcelona as it is currenly called). The north american indians are in tune with "The Greensong" of nature that allows them to do things like run very long distances and not get tired or hunt with ease. The south american natives practice more bloody rituals that give them power.

I've been considering the idea of how I might shape this into game terms to possibly run it at GenCon or a future Game Day. It seems like Feats would be the best way to do it, perhaps in conjunction with a skill (similar to Spellcraft) that would allow fine tuning or stretching the base power.

Anyhow, if that sounds like something that would interest you then I'd be happy to discuss it further.