Magic like the real world

[diaglo]

This topic has actually been on my mind a bit lately as I've been reading the latest Alvin Maker book by Orson Scott Card ("The Crystal City"). I highly recommend this series.

for more reading pickup

Philip K Dick

or Stephen King --- The Talisman... WOlf "Right here and now"

or even the Anne Rice Vampire stuff.

 

[JPL]

"Authentic Thaumaturgy" is one of those books where one suspects the author believes much of what he has written. Which can be great, but disturbing.

"Unknown Armies" has a pretty funky magic system [including simple folk charms and hexes] which is surprisingly portable.

I dig GURPS Cabal, if you're into the Hermetic magic. Pretty dense reading.

 

[Rel]

for more reading pickup

Philip K Dick

Hmm, I've read a lot of Dick (shut up) and most of it has been dystopian sci-fi. What fantasy of his would you recommend?

or Stephen King --- The Talisman... WOlf "Right here and now"

I own this and it is sitting on my "waiting to be read" shelf so it won't be long.

or even the Anne Rice Vampire stuff.

I've never read any Anne Rice but I've recently read a good bit of Laurel K. Hamilton (Anita Blake - Vampire Hunter) and that's another subtle magic world for the most part.

 

[diaglo]

Hmm, I've read a lot of Dick (shut up) and most of it has been dystopian sci-fi. What fantasy of his would you recommend?

not so much any particular work. but take a read here: http://www.philipkdick.com/aa_biography.html

the magic in his real life i have a feeling bleeds thru in his later works.

 

[Nebulous]

Try this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1556343604/michaeltrescaA

Authentic Thaumaturgy
# Paperback: 144 pages
# Publisher: Steve Jackson Games; 2 edition (November, 1998)
# ISBN: 1556343604

It's ah...complex.

Quote from a review:

I have this book, as well as Real Magic written by the author Isaac Bonewitts. Although not a practicing magician myself i have read extensively about the subject and i believe in a lot of things i haven't actually experienced. One point Bonewitts makes several times is that there is no difference between DnD magic and psionics. The energy all comes from the same place.

Real magic doesn't work anything like DnD magic. It is usually very subtle, and often deals with ethereal realms that can't even be perceived by novices or non-practitioners. The highest forms of magic are very spiritual and not at all about gaining power or control, although such goals are possible. Magic is a tool that can be used for any purpose, just like the Light and Dark side of the Force. Lucas had that stuff right. The books of Bonewitts go into explicit details about the Laws of Magic, such as Cause and Effect, which basically just states that whatsover you do to someone else you will experience at a later date, either this life or the next. It's not punishment, just don't be surprised when it happens. There's a lot more. It is a little complex. The theory and history part is great, the actual game mechanics are a waste of space as you would spend the ENTIRE game session figuring out how to cast a spell.

 

[RangerWickett]

I had an epiphany about how to do this magic this morning while I was asleep. The epiphany has, of course, gone.

I basically want any sort of magic to work. If you believe you are an ancient Chinese sorcerer capable of calling down lightning or turning yourself into a dragon, you can do that (at high level). If you believe you're a voodoo priest, able to raise a zombie and injure someone with an effigy of them, then you can (and probably at low level). If you're a scholar from Arkham, MA, and you think you can summon elder beings if you read these obscure texts written in Sumerian, then you can do it (but you risk going mad).

I'd like a simple magic system that could cover all that. I don't know if simple is possible, though. I'm just brainstorming here, right now.

Say there are two methods of spellcasting. One is safe but weak, the other can get great power, but is dangerous.

The dangerous method would basically set a DC to every spell effect, based on its level. Anyone who finds the ritual could perform it, and if they beat the caster level check, the spell works. If they beat it by a lot, it might even work without drawbacks. And if they fail, well, they're in trouble. You could also create rituals with Knowledge (arcana).

The safe method . . . and my issue is that I'm trying to make this fit with d20 modern easily, is to have the ability to cast magic be a benefit and a drawback. The drawback is that, if you use magic, other magic-users can just notice you, especially if you're powerful. The benefit is that you don't actually have to take levels in a magic class to use magic. You take skill ranks in Magical Power, and can cast a number of spells per day equal to your ranks. Hmm. I'm just rambling now.

 

[Nebulous]

Sounds doable Ranger. Sounds like a little smattering of various game systems and idears thrown together. I for one have been yearning for a break from the standard DnD magic for a long long time and i've found lot's of stuff i like. Arcana Evolved is wonderful, so is Ars Magica, and so is the Psychic's handbook.

Having powerful but dangerous magic and weaker but safer magic sounds like another fun route to take.

 

[Umbran]

I basically want any sort of magic to work. If you believe you are an ancient Chinese sorcerer capable of calling down lightning or turning yourself into a dragon, you can do that (at high level). If you believe you're a voodoo priest, able to raise a zombie and injure someone with an effigy of them, then you can (and probably at low level). If you're a scholar from Arkham, MA, and you think you can summon elder beings if you read these obscure texts written in Sumerian, then you can do it (but you risk going mad).

I will point you, again, to White Wolf's Mage: The Ascension. Within it, the paradigm of magic is a fuction of the user, not the universe. It covers everything from Mad Scientists to Voodoo to witches to computer hackers to priests and beyond.

It is, in many ways, quite simple, and extremely flexible. However, the interactions within the system can be powerful and can wreak havoc if the GM isn't paying attention.

Say there are two methods of spellcasting. One is safe but weak, the other can get great power, but is dangerous.

White Wolf does cover this, too. Full fledged Mages are capable of powerful or subtle effects of many different types, but the powerful ones are very dangerous. Sorcerers and psi-users in WW are tightly restricted, but generally safe from magical repercussions.

From what you've written here, I strongly reccommend that you go to a Mage rulebook and read it, and see what of it you might adapt for your use...

Or, you may just decide to play Mage, and skip the conversion step altogether.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'd like a simple magic system that could cover all that. I don't know if simple is possible, though. I'm just brainstorming here, right now.

That's basically the take that Mage puts on it.

The Incantation system from Urban Arcana might work better for you. That has the 'big effect, bad consequences if you screw up'-type mechanic you seem to want.

Another place to look is the 1922 Golden Bough by James Frazier, certainly one of the most exhaustive anthopological classifications of world magic and belief systems ever undertaken. You'll want the latest edition one because the 1890's version is like 12 thick volumes. It's a little dense. You'll know the basics, like sympathetic magic, from the basic D&D stuff but this goes into a lot more detail.

One of the best and most gameable 'real world' magic systems I've ever seen is in GURPS Voodoo, which uses initiation levels, being ridden by spirits, etc. Their Spirits book also does more with the Ritual Magic idea. Modern Magic by Green Ronin has d20 Modern magic of several sorts, including some 'real world' practices.

To really model real world practices, use Mutants and Masterminds; mages get one superpower: Luck Manipulation, along with a generous GM sense of balance. They just make things that could happen normally more or less likely to happen.

I haven't seen the urban fantasy book from Guardians of Order yet (Teflon Billy has it and has promised a review); usually the urban fantasy genre has a smattering of real world-based practices.

 

[devilish]

Some of them you'd just have to make a value judgment on, like invisibility. It's subtle, but obvious.

I always like the Stephen King explanation in either Talisman or Eyes of the Dragon
where someone went dim. If you were looking for them, you would see
them, either clearly or as a shimmer (I don't recall) but if you weren't expecting
them -- they were effectively invisible.

I know other writers have done this but I first read it in S.K.