Magic/Mana points

[Evendur]

If this is already in another thread, please just point me there. Thanks.

I would like to use magic point costs while spellcasting in my game a la most online games (there's a reason behind this before you flame me for using a MMORPG convention at the table). Could someone give me some pointers or maybe point me towards a site/book that could? Thanks.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, depending on how detailed you want to go into the system, you have several options.

1. You can grab the Psionics Handbook and use its rules for Power Points. Just replace power points with magic points, and you're set. A 1st level spell = 1 MP, 2nd level = 3 MP, 3rd level = 5 MP, etc. You'll note that the amount of points a 20th level caster gets is less than the equivalent number of spell slots. This is because a high-level mage using MP can use a lot more high-level spells than a normal wizard. Sure, the 20th level MP-mage might only be able to cast 10 9th level spells and 5 8th level spells (and nothing else), but he has a lot more flexbility than a normal wizard.

2. You can pick up The Elements of Magic, a pdf now on sale at RPGNow for the ridiculously low price of $1. It changes the current magic system a good deal, but it is built with MP as a core assumption, rather than tacking it on. This version of EOM is a little dated and clunky, and it can be a bit of a chore to use.

3. You can go to the E.N.Publishing website and download the free teaser of the revised Elements of Magic, which is much smoother to play with, but is not complete. The full version will be coming out later this month.

The links to either buy EOM or download the EOM revised teaser are in my .sig.

 

[Evendur]

thank you for your quick resonse. I hadn't thought of going to the Psionic's Handbook for this.

Now, the other thing I need to tackle is whether or not to have mages memorize their spells. The idea I have is to basically allow mages the use of whatever spells they have in their posession as long as they have the points to cast them. What are your thoughts?

 

[Staffan]

thank you for your quick resonse. I hadn't thought of going to the Psionic's Handbook for this.

Now, the other thing I need to tackle is whether or not to have mages memorize their spells. The idea I have is to basically allow mages the use of whatever spells they have in their posession as long as they have the points to cast them. What are your thoughts?

That's extremely powerful unless you limit their spells known at the same time, which basically means you have a sorcerer (or psion) instead. If you want greater flexibility, the system in Arcana Unearthed looks good on paper (haven't actually played with it), where spellcasters have both "known" and "readied" spells, and have spontaneous access to all spells that are readied. Basically, sorcerers that can swap out their spells each day.

 

[thullgrim]

thats genally how it works. there are a couple of hybrid system wherein the cast knows a ton of spells but only keep 8-10 ready to cast at any given time. Then he can change out the number of spells he readied through meditation or concentration for an hour or some such. Think Everquest. If that is the system you are attempting to emulate it may be worth it to get the EQ player's handbook published by Sword and Sorcery Studios I think.

Thullgrim

 

[Golem2176]

If you own the Everquest D20 PHB, you can skim over the magic rules and adapt the mana system to your hombrew game.

 

[Aazenius]

I use a mana point system in my game. And the first thing you'll discover is how much power it gives to the players. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. However you will notice that as players level up, they no longer cast those lower level spells... and use their mana to cast the higher level spells a lot more often then would be allowed via the old magic system.

I used the psionics handbook to convert my magic into mana, and I used Arcana Undearthed for the idea of "Readied Spells". With this system, you still have to prepare your spells... you just have a larger pool to call upon.

If you switch over to a mana point system, do not do it point for point. Another words, don't add up all the spells that a cleric can cast in D&D 3.5 and give them enough mana to cast all those spells. Because your players will not spend that mana to cast lower level spells all that often, and you will find your wizard tossing fireballs at nearly every encounter... with no fear of running out of them anytime soon. I basically totalled up the mana used to cast spells using the psionic system, and only gave each player 3/4s the mana that they would have gotten. This helps keep things a little bit in line.

One of the things I enjoy most about a mana point system, is how easy it is to cast a metamagiced spell on the fly. Using the psionic handbook system, a spell can never cost more mana then the caster level - 1. This helps keep things in line.

 

[Evendur]

The system I'm currently going to be playtesting is this:

Mages (there are no Sorcerers in my game...sadly) will have Spellbooks. OK, nothing startling there. Each book will have the initial spells that mages get at level one (0- and 1-level spells only). They can cast whichever spells they have in that book. As they gain in level, they have the ABILITY to learn higher level spells but do NOT get them automatically. They have to quest for them, essentially. This does two things: limits the number of higher level spells the casters are slinging around and also provides for cool quests.

As far as the number of mana points the caster gets, I'm going to use the Psionic powerpoints for this as everyone has suggested. I am also designing a new feat which allows for more mana (it replaces the feat Spell Mastery). Also, metamagic feats, instead of taking up spell slots so many levels higher (which becomes a little silly since mana allows for unlimited multi-level casting as long as the caster has mana) the feat allows a caster to quicken, still, silence, or maximize a spell with an extra mana cost (eg. Maximize spell costs three extra points per spell level so Fireball, a third level spell, costs nine extra mana points to maximize--I'm still tweaking this).

I'm hoping to make my new RPG available later this year online. This is actually a new campaign/system I plan to submit to Wizards for publication (or any other publisher for that matter). If there is anyone out there with some experience in this process, I would love to talk to you. My ICQ is 261053552. Feel free to IM me.

The rest of you, let me know what you think of what I've posted here. Thanks!

 

[Aazenius]

Also, metamagic feats, instead of taking up spell slots so many levels higher (which becomes a little silly since mana allows for unlimited multi-level casting as long as the caster has mana) the feat allows a caster to quicken, still, silence, or maximize a spell with an extra mana cost (eg. Maximize spell costs three extra points per spell level so Fireball, a third level spell, costs nine extra mana points to maximize--I'm still tweaking this).

The Psionics Handbook already took care of this. Unless your not using their system. Basically it works like this... a Maximized Spell is +6 Mana, a Quicken Spell is +8 Mana.

0/1 Level spells cost 1 mana, 2-level cost 3, 3-level cost 5 mana...etc.
So a Maximized Fireball cost 11 mana. Again if your going to switch over to the mana point system using the Psionics Handbook, I recomend that you do NOT do it point for point, or your characters at level 20 will have 350+ mana points. 9th level spells only cost 17 mana points... hopefully you can see the harm in being able to cast 20+ Meteor Swarms... it would be very unbalancing. I recomend giving them only 3/4's of that. So that at 20th level they would have around 260+ or so mana.

Or, you could make 9th level spells cost 3 times the normal amount... 51 mana for a 9th level spell might limit how many times someone is going to cast that Meteor Swarm. Hopefully you'll figure out a system that is ballanced...

 

[Evendur]

I'm facing the possibility of creating a completely new system entirely from the ground up. I don't know if I have the energy for that though. I'm not sure how much I can butcher the d20 system and still stay within SRD guidelines.

I really am not that worried about balance in the game. I am limiting their knowledge of spells severely (a 20th level mage may not even have fifth level spells if they don't do the quests to find them).

Where did you get your totals for the power points? I'm calculating approx. 215 powerpoints at 20th level with a key ability score of 18. 23 ninth level spells may seem heavy duty but I will be increasing the cost for higher level spells.

There's a slight chance I may switch to GURPS for all this? Anyone ever play that system? Any luck?