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Magic of Eberron (Book Approval)

Erekose13

Explorer
This book has been out for a while now and should be open for us to vote on. I posted this as a full proposal as it follows with what we have done with Eberron material in the past. I'll list out everything in this post later if need be.

EDIT: Content added

Races:
-Daelkyr Half-blood
-Psiforged (really just a feat)

Classes:
-Psionic Artificer

Rituals:
-Ritual of Breath
-Ritual of Fangs
-Ritual of Presence
-Ritual of Prophesy
-Ritual of Resistance
-Ritual of The Totem Guardian
-Ritual of Vision
-Ritual of Wings

Feats:
-Augment Elemental
-Cull Wand Essence
-Dragon Prophesier
-Dragon Totem Focus
-Dragon Totem Lorekeeper
-Dragon Totem Scion
-Elemental Helmsman
-Elemental Smite
-Heroic Companion
-Improved Homunculus
-Prophesy's Artifex
-Prophesy's Explorer
-Prophesy's Hero
-Prophesy's Shaper
-Prophesy's Shepherd
-Prophesy's Slayer
-Psiforged Body
-Quicken Dragonmark
-Rapid Infusion
-Symbiont Mastery
-Wand Surge
-Deathless Fleshgrafter
-Dorje Mastery
-Eldeen Plantgrafter
-Elemental Grafter
-Etch Schema
-Heroic Focus
-Prophesy's Mind
-Psionic Luck
-Psychic Rush

Prestige Classes:
-Alchemist Savant
-Deadgrim
-Dragon Prophet
-Elemental Scion
-Impure Prince
-Quori Mindhunter
-Renegade Mastermaker
-Vigilant Sentinel

Spells & Infusions:
-ablative armor
-adamantine weapon
-ancient knowledge
-blast rod
-censure elementals
-clothier's closet
-concurrent infusions
-control elemental
-detect dragonmark
-dimension leap
-distracting shadows
-elemental prod
-expose the dead
-glimpse of eternity
-glimpse of the prophesy
-hidden ward
-indisputable possession
-khyber trap
-leap into animal
-leech undeath
-lucky blade
-lucky cape
-magic weapon, greater legion's
-magic weapon, legion's
-metamagic scroll
-mindburn
-orb of dancing death
-overwhelming revelations
-reinforce construct
-scalding touch
-scry trap
-semblance of life
-sense weakness
-shared healing
-slaying arrow
-speaking stones
-spell snare
-spell snare, greater
-storm touch
-suffer the flesh
-suppress dragonmark
-undying aura
-watchful ancestors
-wind's favor

Powers:
-faint memory
-forced dream
-foretelling
-induce awe
-project quori spirit
-psychic beacon
-sense danger
-stun quori spirit
-suppress schism
-waking dreams


Okay I'm going to take a break there cause there are lots of items too...
 
Last edited:

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Velmont

First Post
If the book is not approved as a whole, I would like the PrC Renegade Mastermaker being look by teh judge, as I would like my artificer going on that path. I like the idea of the mad genius scientist experimenting on himself.

Thanks.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Of the content, the only thing in question (that would need more dicussion) are the various prophesy feats. Some of them might be a bit wonky. Do not have my books right now to look at though.

I'm fine with Renegade Mastermaker. :)
 

Bront

The man with the probe
stonegod said:
Of the content, the only thing in question (that would need more dicussion) are the various prophesy feats. Some of them might be a bit wonky. Do not have my books right now to look at though.
I looked at them, and they work much the same way as shifter feats. Not all of them are usefull for everyone though. They are different. The biggest downside, is the full round action to get them started.

Those feats seem pretty balanced to me for the most part, given the amount of feats you need to burn to get them and use them effectively. Many of them also end the trance when used.
 







Erekose13

Explorer
I've read through this one thouroughly and can't find anything wrong with it (though personally it wasn't really what I had hoped it would be when I bought it).

Yes
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Erekose13 said:
I've read through this one thouroughly and can't find anything wrong with it (though personally it wasn't really what I had hoped it would be when I bought it).

Yes
This probably actually is not the first time we've added spells/infusions to a list where the class gets everything on the list, but I forgot to mention this before the last time, so it bears critical importance:

How are we going to handle that situation? My immediate answer is that the only fair way to deal with Clerics is to run it like I run my home games where they pay the typical Wizard price for scribing (but not researching) new spells to get access to new spells, but with Artificers and their troublesome 'Spontaneous Access to Everything' it is more troublesome, as every new Infusion makes the Artificer significantly more powerful. I would say at least charge them the Wizard price, and at most don't charge them that price but make them swap out from the standard list to add new ones. What we need to avoid at all costs is eventually reaching a state after many approvals where Joe Player with no Eberron books is playing in a game with Jim Warbucks with every book, they both have Artificers, and Jim has spontaneous access to ten times as many options as Joe. This is going to make a big difference
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Rystil Arden said:
How are we going to handle that situation?
We already added all the infusions from Races of Eberron (though that is a small number).

Artificers have a rule for adding new infusions as per the ECS: A DC 20+spell level Spellcraft check. Its the only real reason to have Spellcraft as an artificer (as they cannot counterspell and don't get detect magic). Of our current Artificers, only one has any ranks in it (but, we have not added any significant # of infusions).

As an alternative or in addition (if the spellcraft check is insufficient or only for esoteric ones), I'd recommend doings something like giving them 1 or 2 infusions when they gain a level.

And realize, with any system put in place, an artificer can also UMD up a scroll of the infusion. Its temporary access, but still access.
 

Moggthegob

First Post
Rystil Arden said:
This probably actually is not the first time we've added spells/infusions to a list where the class gets everything on the list, but I forgot to mention this before the last time, so it bears critical importance:

How are we going to handle that situation? My immediate answer is that the only fair way to deal with Clerics is to run it like I run my home games where they pay the typical Wizard price for scribing (but not researching) new spells to get access to new spells.
See i disagree wih making clerics have to pay for thier new spells. Thats the archivists big disadvantage and if you make the cleric do it too that archivist becomes pretty attractive for caster type divine spell casters( as in its no contest anymore)
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Moggthegob said:
See i disagree wih making clerics have to pay for thier new spells. Thats the archivists big disadvantage and if you make the cleric do it too that archivist becomes pretty attractive for caster type divine spell casters( as in its no contest anymore)
The Archivist has to pay to add anything beyond two per level, so it is balanced versus the core Cleric when you look at the vast list the core Cleric has--the Archivist would have to be insanely rich just to add those core spells, since she doesn't get all the core spells to start and the Cleric does. Do you agree it's balanced then?

Now if you add the entire Spell Compendium and all Eberron supplements and you aren't careful about it, the Cleric has something like 4 to 5x as many spells that just randomly appear on her spell list. Assuming the player is rich enough to own all these books IRL, this gives her character a huge advantage in flexibility when preparing spells each morning at no cost. Not only is it unfair to the Archivist, whose disadvantage was just multiplied by a large amount, it's incredibly unfair to the Favoured Soul, who was already weaker than the Cleric, since the Favoured Soul can never add more spells known to her list.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
stonegod said:
We already added all the infusions from Races of Eberron (though that is a small number).

Artificers have a rule for adding new infusions as per the ECS: A DC 20+spell level Spellcraft check. Its the only real reason to have Spellcraft as an artificer (as they cannot counterspell and don't get detect magic). Of our current Artificers, only one has any ranks in it (but, we have not added any significant # of infusions).

As an alternative or in addition (if the spellcraft check is insufficient or only for esoteric ones), I'd recommend doings something like giving them 1 or 2 infusions when they gain a level.

And realize, with any system put in place, an artificer can also UMD up a scroll of the infusion. Its temporary access, but still access.
UMDing up a scroll of the infusion is perfectly reasonable IMO. Adding infusions to a spontaneous list that they can choose from at any time is a substantial power boost. With each non-useless infusion that you add for a given level, the Artificer gains a visible and substantial boost in power. The analogy is adding Spells Known to the Sorcerer--that wouldn't be fair, right?
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Rystil Arden said:
UMDing up a scroll of the infusion is perfectly reasonable IMO. Adding infusions to a spontaneous list that they can choose from at any time is a substantial power boost. With each non-useless infusion that you add for a given level, the Artificer gains a visible and substantial boost in power. The analogy is adding Spells Known to the Sorcerer--that wouldn't be fair, right?
But, at the same time, most of those spells are combat oriented (must be cast then) whereas the majority of infusions take more than a minute to cast. It also does not address the current extant mechanics for adding infusions (Spellcraft check).

We could take a page from the other spontaneous casting/all known classes and allow them to add 1 for free every 3/4 levels or so. But would that be in addition to or inplace of the Spellcraft check?
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
stonegod said:
But, at the same time, most of those spells are combat oriented (must be cast then) whereas the majority of infusions take more than a minute to cast. It also does not address the current extant mechanics for adding infusions (Spellcraft check).

We could take a page from the other spontaneous casting/all known classes and allow them to add 1 for free every 3/4 levels or so. But would that be in addition to or inplace of the Spellcraft check?
I would be 100% willing to allow the Cleric, Artificer, and all other spontaneous/all known casters to add 1 for free every 3 or 4 levels if that's the only way they get access to them, since that won't add up to huge amounts. I think it would be in place of the Spellcraft check in the Artificer's case, but explain it to me--the Artificer just rolls a Spellcraft check with no other cost or mechanism, or does she have to also pay money and time first? Otherwise, what's to stop her from rolling many many times until she succeeds?
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Rystil Arden said:
I would be 100% willing to allow the Cleric, Artificer, and all other spontaneous/all known casters to add 1 for free every 3 or 4 levels if that's the only way they get access to them, since that won't add up to huge amounts. I think it would be in place of the Spellcraft check in the Artificer's case, but explain it to me--the Artificer just rolls a Spellcraft check with no other cost or mechanism, or does she have to also pay money and time first? Otherwise, what's to stop her from rolling many many times until she succeeds?
Its a several step process
- The artificer needs access to the infusion (usually a scroll, probably not just from a casting)
- They make the Spellcraft check
- If they fail, they cannot try again until they level (as a wizard)
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
stonegod said:
Its a several step process
- The artificer needs access to the infusion (usually a scroll, probably not just from a casting)
- They make the Spellcraft check
- If they fail, they cannot try again until they level (as a wizard)
I assume it expends the scroll in the attempt. I would be willing to accept that process happily in most cases (and I suggest the same for Clerics learning new spells!). However, I am leery about the Artificer's spontaneous access to all spells. How about this--we use the by-the-book process for Artificers in learning new infusions, but we only let them have spontaneous access to a number of infusions equal to the number in the Eberron book. So each day, they can swap out any number of infusions from the regular Eberron book for any number of new infusions known, and vice versa, but never in greater number than they started with. This is still quite powerful--it's tantamount to a Sorcerer who swap out her spells known each day, but I'm much more comfortable with that. Does that sound good?
 

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