Magic Vestment

[Noldor Elf]

Getting back to the original topic (like it or not)...

Note: An enhancement bonus increases
armor’s or a shield’s benefit to the wearer’s
AC. A suit of armor cannot have more than
+5 in total bonuses (even if some of its
bonus is from other than enhancement).

If we interpret that this is meant just to be reminder about enchantment bonuses not stacking, why there is no such a reminder at wording of Greater Magic Weapon?

My opinion is that Magic Vestment can only give suit of armour an enchanted maxium armor bonus of +5, thus chainmail or heavier armours would gain nothing from the spell. (If you want get nitpicking, the spell is called Magic Vestment, not Magic Armor)

 

[kreynolds]

If we interpret that this is meant just to be reminder about enchantment bonuses not stacking, why there is no such a reminder at wording of Greater Magic Weapon?

Because the designer that converted Greater Magic Weapon felt that the bonus stacking rules were quite clear and felt no need to insert a reminder? Who knows.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

My opinion is that Magic Vestment can only give suit of armour an enchanted maxium armor bonus of +5, thus chainmail or heavier armours would gain nothing from the spell. (If you want get nitpicking, the spell is called Magic Vestment, not Magic Armor)

You cannot be serious.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You cannot be serious.

It is, actually, a valid interpretation of the wording.

I don't think it's the most valid. It states "A suit of armor cannot have more than +5 in total bonuses", rather than "The spell cannot increase an armor's total bonus to more than +5". Since we know that, if you take the base armor bonus into account, a suit of armor can have more than +5 in total bonuses, my opinion is that the sentence is intended to exclude the base armor bonus.

If I really had to explain what I thought the intent was, then I would say that "even if some of the bonus comes from other than enhancement" intends "enhancement" to mean not any enhancement bonus, but specifically an enhancement bonus imbued by means of the Craft Arms and Armor feat, and that because of this, Divine Shield is also limited to +5.

But that's getting into intent over wording

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

You cannot be serious.

That is what the spell says.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That is what the spell says.

But if you read it that way, it's not all the spell says. If you read it that way, it also says "Heavy Armor does not exist". All heavy armor has more that +5 in total bonuses, and Magic Vestment says that's not possible.

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

But if you read it that way, it's not all the spell says. If you read it that way, it also says "Heavy Armor does not exist". All heavy armor has more that +5 in total bonuses, and Magic Vestment says that's not possible.

-Hyp.

Heh! That's the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread. It's really going to surprise the dwarven tank to find out that he's been wearing something non-existent all this time

 

[JChung2003]

The maximum of +5 means that you cannot take an Armor with a +2 enhancement bonus and make it +7.

Magic Vestment is the Greater Magic Weapon for Armor. It grants an enhancement bonus of +1/3 levels, max. +5.

Enhancement bonuses don't stack so it was unnecessary for them to write anything if that was their sole intention.

They intended for the enhancement bonus to stack with any other kinds of bonuses (luck, divine, profane, etc.) up to a maximum of +5 in total bonuses. I don't think they intended the armor bonus of suits of armor or shields to be counted towards that maximum of total bonuses.

Unlike magic vestment, magic weapon has no such restriction. It is possible to cast greater magic weapon on a sword with a +3 sacred bonus to get higher than +5 in total bonuses. The only restriction is that the bonus from greater magic weapon cannot stack with the +1 attack bonus for masterwork weapons. Personally, I think it was redundant of them to mention that in the description for greater magic weapon (and they didn't mention it in the description for magic weapon), but it's a reminder that the attack bonus for a masterwork weapon is an unnamed bonus that doesn't stack with enhancement bonuses to attack rolls but does stack with the enhancement bonus to weapon damage rolls conferred by an enhancement bonus to a weapon.

This is unabashed rules lawyering. DM's, feel free to ignore this thread and rule as you wish.

 

[dcollins]

But if you read it that way, it's not all the spell says. If you read it that way, it also says "Heavy Armor does not exist". All heavy armor has more that +5 in total bonuses, and Magic Vestment says that's not possible.

You're trying too hard to make it look absurd. The described limit is within the context of the spell.

 

[millipj]

Cast on armour and shields?

The spell says it effects a suit or armour or shield. If you cast it on both armour and shield (ie two spells) do they stack for a possible +10 enhancement bonus (+5 from armour, +5 from shield)?