Magic

[Tinker Gnome]

Now, I dont mean changing the mechanics, so this stays here. I mean flavor wise developing the system. Meaning making up how the normal PHB spells work. There is alwya smention of arcane symbols, but what are they exactly? I was thinking of making up all of the symbols myself and even coming up with a method of how new spells are created. My question is, has anyone ever done this before, and if so, what were some difficulties you came across?

 

[jmucchiello]

You want to reverse engineer a set of symbols that can be arranged to generate the exist PHB spells and then be used to create other spells? That is a colossal impossible task you've created. The PHB spells don't really follow any real logic.

Now, I did do something like this in a free form game. My players created their characters by saying what they thought they could do. For the spellcasters I gave them sentenses in a gibberish language that they had to say to cast their spells. If they misspoke (or deliberately rearranged the words) alternate effects might occur. My underlying system was the HERO power system. Each power had a word, each advantage and limitation had a word. Words for numeric values finished the language. It was fun as they slowly learned to manipulate their set of spells into new abilities.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

You want to reverse engineer a set of symbols that can be arranged to generate the exist PHB spells and then be used to create other spells? That is a colossal impossible task you've created. The PHB spells don't really follow any real logic.

Now, I did do something like this in a free form game. My players created their characters by saying what they thought they could do. For the spellcasters I gave them sentenses in a gibberish language that they had to say to cast their spells. If they misspoke (or deliberately rearranged the words) alternate effects might occur. My underlying system was the HERO power system. Each power had a word, each advantage and limitation had a word. Words for numeric values finished the language. It was fun as they slowly learned to manipulate their set of spells into new abilities.

True, but I was thinking of just making up a bunch of symbols, and then having certain ones represent certain things. Like Fire, Water, Earth, Air. Death, Other liquids besides water. Symbols for different types of trapping spells such as web and forcecage.

For spell research if a player wanted to create a spell that captures something and also fills the area where they are captured with liquid, the symbols would be some combination of the one for forcecage and the one for water. Now they would not have to do this themselves, but I would describe the PC doing it.

 

[Steverooo]

You might want to look for an old copy of RuneQuest, then. They had a few symbols. Old 1e AD&D books also had some similar things.

 

[Umbran]

My question is, has anyone ever done this before, and if so, what were some difficulties you came across?

The major difficulty is simply - the more you deal with how it works, the more you have to justify yourself, and the more you have to worry about consistency and continuity. You can always depend upon players to take every tidbit as meaningful. They will read into what you say until they are blue in the face, and expect their conclusions are correct.

Consider, for example infravision and darkvision. The first gave an idea of how the thing worked, and that brought up loads of questions. The second doesn't tell us at all how the thing functions. It simply does, and it's effects are stated clearly and plainly, and it generates few arguments.

 

[Stormborn]

Without changing the mechanics of the game a real set of symbols will be difficult. But why actually draw the symbols? Just tell the players that there are symbols...which much like words might have some common roots but have radically shifted in various times and palces so that they are barely recognizable as the same thing. Take the name "John" for example: Jon, Johan, Ivan, Van, Ian...and so on. Anything that transmists meaning changes with use, and given the number of races and spellcasters in a typical fantasy world that is bound to happen.

So what are you left with? Encourage spellcasters to describe what they are doing. If a spell has a somantic component then the spell caster says "I draw the eldritch sign for Flaming Sphere in the air, and cast my material components through it as I shout the magic words in the arcane tounge!" If no verbal component, or if the caster has Still Spell, then it might be something like: "In my mind I overlay the symbol for the Stilled Bull's Strength on the Fighter and whisper the words as I offer the hairs of the Bulls of Keltos back to the world." If someone uses spellcraft to identify a spell you might say on a succesful check: "While the symbol is not exactly the one you would use, it obviously has the core elements of Sign of Expeditious Retreat in it."

There, the flavor you wanted, w/o all the problems of trying to create a systematic (and thus nearly impossible with RAW) method for representing the various spells.

 

[Umbran]

Without changing the mechanics of the game a real set of symbols will be difficult. But why actually draw the symbols? Just tell the players that there are symbols...

Which ties into a fairly standard Rule of GMing - don't create more than you need to.

Your players have imaginations, and rather than rack your own to come up with specifics to hand to them, it makes sense to invoke theirs. It is easier to get the players to imagine a picture from vague description than it is to create a detailed picture of your own.

 

[Particle_Man]

I'd suggest getting "The Elements of Magic (Revised)". That breaks down spells into component parts (So you get thinks like "Evoke" + "Fire" to get your effects). Match each part with a symbol, match each "generic" enhancement with a symbol, and you are done!

 

[maransreth]

IN Palladium Fantasy RPG there is a summoner and and warlock core classes. They use runes or circles to create their magic. There was about 2 pages worth of sigils/symbols and what each one meant. These included the elements, some races, that sort of thing.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

The main reason was just because I wanted to really. I sometimes do things that are not neccessary.