Magical Gemstones

[der_kluge]

We didn't implement a cost for making a socketed item vs. a regular item. It's like double-taxation. A socketed item has no real power over a regular one. And since you have to create something to put in the socket anyway, that's where the cost lies. The only cost in creating a socketed item is in creating the masterwork whatever for making the original (mundane) item. That is, a socketed magical sword has to start out as a mundane masterwork socketed sword. There is an increased cost in making that, but not in making it magical. In other words, a masterwork socketed sword costs the same as a masterwork sword when making it into a +1 weapon.

Furthermore, we *had* a "create talisman" feat, but dropped it, because there are already too many magic item creation feats anyway. If you want to create a magical talisman, my recommendation would be to just use the craft wondrous item feat. Ioun stones are nothing more than flying talismans (we have rules that cover this in the book) and they are created with just craft wondrous item. So, an extra feat just seems like overkill.

With that said, creating a talisman is exactly like creating a wondrous item, if it has wondrous properties. Or, it is just like creating a bonus item (like a +1 sword is a bonus item). So, you could have two kinds of talismans:
+2 talisman or
a talisman allows you cast charm person 1/day

The first is a bonus talisman, and is created exactly the same way a +2 sword is, except it incurs additional cost because it has multiple variations. The second is just like a ring that would do the same thing, but it also has an increased cost because it's more portable. But, you'd rarely have any reason to create the second kind of talisman.

The first talisman, you could stick into armor, or into a sword. If you put it into a sword, it stacks with the plus of the sword. So, if you had a +1 socketed sword, and you put in our +2 talisman, you now have a +3 sword. If you put it into +1 armor, you now have +3 armor. Furthermore, because ability and skill items are considered "bonus" items, you could stick into gauntlets of strength +2, making them gauntlets of strength +4.

That's it, in a nutshell.

 

[jmucchiello]

We didn't implement a cost for making a socketed item vs. a regular item. It's like double-taxation. A socketed item has no real power over a regular one. And since you have to create something to put in the socket anyway, that's where the cost lies. The only cost in creating a socketed item is in creating the masterwork whatever for making the original (mundane) item.

I would charge the double taxation as you put it because the powers added by the jewels do not take up a chakra spot. If you socket a ring of protection and give it a jewel with the resist elements ability, you just put two effects in one chakra. Paying for the socket separate from the jewel obviates having different prices for the jewel depending on what kind of item it's placed in.

Furthermore, we *had* a "create talisman" feat, but dropped it, because there are already too many magic item creation feats anyway.

Arguably true. But I still don't think what you did is as similar to Diablo as phil was looking for. How many sockets can stack in an item in your system?

With that said, creating a talisman is exactly like creating a wondrous item, if it has wondrous properties. Or, it is just like creating a bonus item (like a +1 sword is a bonus item). So, you could have two kinds of talismans:
+2 talisman or
a talisman allows you cast charm person 1/day

Jewels have varying effects and fit in any socket. If the socket is in a weapon you get a weapon effect, if the socket is in armor you get a protection effect, if the socket is in a set of thieves tools, you get a skill enhancing effect. All sockets accept all jewels. This is a big difference it seems. Also, it doesn't take any magic to socket a jewel. A first level fighter who finds a sockets sword and a jewel can just plop it in there and it takes effect immediately. Once joined, the jewel cannot be removed from the socket.

The jewels are not specialized in this system.

 

[der_kluge]

I would charge the double taxation as you put it because the powers added by the jewels do not take up a chakra spot. If you socket a ring of protection and give it a jewel with the resist elements ability, you just put two effects in one chakra. Paying for the socket separate from the jewel obviates having different prices for the jewel depending on what kind of item it's placed in.

But, one could just put a protection and resist elements effect into a single ring and get the same exact result.

Arguably true. But I still don't think what you did is as similar to Diablo as phil was looking for. How many sockets can stack in an item in your system?

If by stack, you mean how many sockets an item can have - is based on the item size, and it's material. The most is 4, and is reserved for things like heavy armor and tower shields.

Jewels have varying effects and fit in any socket. If the socket is in a weapon you get a weapon effect, if the socket is in armor you get a protection effect, if the socket is in a set of thieves tools, you get a skill enhancing effect. All sockets accept all jewels. This is a big difference it seems. Also, it doesn't take any magic to socket a jewel. A first level fighter who finds a sockets sword and a jewel can just plop it in there and it takes effect immediately. Once joined, the jewel cannot be removed from the socket.

The jewels are not specialized in this system.

Our system allows the gem (or whatever) to be removed. It's a full-round action that invokes an attack of opportunity. We have rules to allow special abilities like ghost touch, or vorpal to be put into talismans. Some of those didn't make any sense, like vorpal. What would a vorpal talisman do in armor? Some of them, like flaming, we defined rules for how much fire protection that would confer if put into armor. So, we included rules for that.

 

[jmucchiello]

But, one could just put a protection and resist elements effect into a single ring and get the same exact result.

And the item creation rules suggest that you have to pay extra to have two effects in that ring. That's why I would charge for the socket.

You system is similiar to the Diablo II system but there is a flavor to the Diablo system that yours seems to lack (and vice versa). The Diablo system works best for just finding stuff at random and hoping they work well together. Your system, by limiting what talismans can go in which sockets, allows less randomness. Not a good or bad thing, just a difference.

 

[CCamfield]

It's been some years since I played Diablo II, but I recall a couple of things about the system:

The first was that it took a LOT of gems to build up to the bigger ones, and that the payoff in the resulting magic item was lousy. (You could get a better random item.) Mind you this was before Blizzard patched the heck out of it; unfortunately my copy of D2 is with a friend in the States.

Another was that, I *think*, you didn't know what the results of the combination would be ahead of time.

Allowing removal seems kind of cheesy to me. "Oh, I don't like this in my sword, I'll pull it out and put it in my armour for the next fight."

I'd certainly buy a good PDF product describing a gem system like this.

Chris

P.S. A vorpal talisman in armour could "seal" it somehow, making it impossible for limbs to be cut off. But I think it would be better to abstract the talisman type into something which can *produce* a vorpal bladed weapon, something else for non-bladed, and other effects for items which aren't weapons at all.

 

[jmucchiello]

The first was that it took a LOT of gems to build up to the bigger ones, and that the payoff in the resulting magic item was lousy. (You could get a better random item.) Mind you this was before Blizzard patched the heck out of it; unfortunately my copy of D2 is with a friend in the States.

That's Gems. I'm talking about Jewels. They were added in the expansion and they have random abilities like most magic items. Gems have set effects (Emeralds have poison, Rubies have fire, etc.) The Jewels can do almost anything.

Another was that, I *think*, you didn't know what the results of the combination would be ahead of time.

Only if you didn't have the guidebook (or went to diabloii.net) which explains the difference between them all.

P.S. A vorpal talisman in armour could "seal" it somehow, making it impossible for limbs to be cut off. But I think it would be better to abstract the talisman type into something which can *produce* a vorpal bladed weapon, something else for non-bladed, and other effects for items which aren't weapons at all.

The opposite of vorpal is "obviously" 100% fortification. Not that I would include a vorpal jewel in such a publication. It is out of place in 3E where there are no hit locations. But that's tangential to this discussion.

 

[der_kluge]

Well, ultimately, unless someone wanted to publish "the big book of opposite effects" it's a DM's call as to what a "vorpal" talisman would do armor.

And as for being able to remove sockets, you could have an "icy burst" socket, and a "flaming burst" socket and could then make your weapon flaming or icy depending on the situation that you wanted. That's versatility.

 

[The Sigil]

Re: Re: Magical Gemstones

yes, e-mail me about Artificer's Handbook, we have those as OGC in that book (coming out in May). Also call Doug for the books you need for our project!!!!

Would a sneak peek at that little bad boy be too much to ask for, Hal?

--The Sigil

 

[jmucchiello]

Well, ultimately, unless someone wanted to publish "the big book of opposite effects" it's a DM's call as to what a "vorpal" talisman would do armor.

And as for being able to remove sockets, you could have an "icy burst" socket, and a "flaming burst" socket and could then make your weapon flaming or icy depending on the situation that you wanted. That's versatility.

Well, Diablo II doesn't care about opposite effects. I would assume the 101 version of the book would include all new effects for the most part not just a run down of the DMG list. Also, in Diablo II, you cannot remove a jewel. Once socketed it fuses. The first post of this thread was looking for some Diablo II like.

As I said before, not better or worse than your system. Merely different.