Magical items

This all depends on what type of campaign you want to play.

I have always favoured a more low-key approach to magic items, trying to give reasons why the items the PCs find exist (especially weapons, which always had a history to them); makes it more personal when they find it.

I like the idea of enchanting items already owened to make them more powerful. My last PC was a hoarder and never liked giving up items; still had his +1 dagger from an early adventure that was precious to him (it was his first item); even though he never used it at higher levels he still carried it around with him.

For my next campaign I want to cpature that feeling, that the magic items a character finds is something precious, not just the equivalent of a new but better microwave, the old one just sold off or sent to the tip.

I also like the item of an auction house rather than a magic item shop, which came about when people started unearthing old magic items in a nearby ruin, or tombs, and so on. That would be better, and you coudl then throw whatever items needed in it.

I would much prefer to see items with no boring bonuses, but rather specific powers or abilities.

And I favour a mix of the 2ed and 3.5ed crafting methods. Having some sort of rules helps, but getting rid of the XP cost would be a grand idea, as would replacing the gp cost with ingredients list.

In fact, this reminds me, does anyone remember the old white dwarf magazines when they used to do D&D and other rpgs? There were a few of them that had brilliant lists of ingredients and processes for crafting magical items, potions and so on. I no longer have them, but they were great for when PCs wanted to make their own magic items. Generated lots of adventure hooks and side-treks.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I disliked 3e's magic item method too. It seemed like the DMG was a shopping list where each player could pick exactly the item desired and hold it over the DM to allow it. I mean, it's within the wealth guidelines right? It took zero imagination and sadly inspired only a little.

Magic items should be mystical and mysterious as others in this thread have said. They are not a lading list of pre-created, unerringly priced power-ups. They are whatever we want to dream up.

For example: I want an item that will help me be invisible. With the magic items I have I go and trade with a wizard friend of mine who has a small collection of magic items. These actually sort of look like my pile except they're his: an NPCs'. He trades with me for other magic items, but he could take gold, other wealth, or that ill-defined "favor" he keeps asking for.

In return I get a long wrapping cloth that can turn itself invisible with tug and also the things it is wrapped around. So I tug it and "pop" it turns invisible. I wrap the unseen thing around my head and tug. "Pop" again and my head disappears. I play with it, have fun with it, and discover I can use it around other things than people too. The effect is permanent (until the wearer strikes) and it also keeps me warm. My sorcerous friend calls it a "scarf".

As I continue in my travels someone mentions that my scarf looks like a tail of a creature that lives in the woods. I get a good description and further learn it's called a long-goated lemur. One of my friends wouldn't mind having one of these scarves, so we go hunting and find long-goated lemurs are really big. And quite nasty monsters. And.. we've actually fought one before, but didn't know quite what it was at the time. Now we've got a name. This time though it thinks I'm a friend. Actually, I think my DM is mean and the lemur wants to mate with me (or my neck at least). We kill it anyways. And this go around we're smart enough to keep the tale, I mean tail, and take it back to the wizard to get it ensorcelled.

And he says, "I never was able to determine how that was done, but I did hear something about a lost city deep in the forest you just left which stated long-goated lemurs were not always as they are now. If you follow the river up into...

And it goes on and on.
 

Two things:
a)Since magic items will have prices in 4e -- and all prices for all items of the same level will be the same -- those who assume "If there's a price, there must be shops" will be very disappointed.

b)I don't know where the meme that "3e has magic shops, 4e doesn't!" got started, except from the AICN story which contained, to be generous, a number of errors in terms of lauding features 4e has that 3e allegedly lacks. While it is off-handedly mentioned in the DMG that large cities might have places where magic items can be bought and sold, this does not translate to "There's a Wal-Mage in every town". Rather, buying and selling of magic items can be assumed to be done during downtime via negotiating with private collectors or powerful guilds. Just because this CAN be abstracted to "OK, you sold your +1 swords and bought a +2 suit of mithral plate" doesn't mean it took two minutes down at Kwik-E-Mage. That abstraction can represent weeks of searching, negotiating, and haggling, but the group might not want to play all that out. Magic items ARE assumed in 4e, there WILL be lots of them, and they WON'T all auto-upgrade. So, either the PCs lug every useless item around with them, or -- fancy that -- they'll find buyers. And if there's buyers, one presumes, there will be sellers. (Buying and selling of magic items sounds like a good use for 4e skill challenge system, actually.)

The degree to which magic is 'mysterious' or 'mundane' in the world depends solely on the DM, not on the rules. The simplest solution to the 'magic shop' problem is simply to state "You ask around and pull some strings, but no one has that particular item to part with. Sorry." The mere fact something has a price -- in 3e or 4e -- does not mean its available. (Also pay attention to wealth limits for various settlements -- many magic items are beyond the scope of even large cities.)
 

Or better yet, magic items are unknown. If you go looking for one, it isn't there as the list in the DMG is only a set of suggestions. There are no generic items. Each is specific.

Sure, you might be able to hunt down a potion or wand, but who's to say it does what you need it too? Time for testing.
 

Lizard said:
Two things:
a)Since magic items will have prices in 4e -- and all prices for all items of the same level will be the same -- those who assume "If there's a price, there must be shops" will be very disappointed.

Well, adding magic shops ought to be fairly trivial for anybody who wants to... not nearly as onerous as removing from 3E the ability to buy and sell magic items on a regular basis.

Lizard said:
b)I don't know where the meme that "3e has magic shops, 4e doesn't!" got started, except from the AICN story which contained, to be generous, a number of errors in terms of lauding features 4e has that 3e allegedly lacks.

Are there any errors in terms of features 4E has? Or is it just the "3E lacks" part you object to?

Arguments go back and forth over whether 3E contains "magic shops" by default, but there is definitely an assumption that PCs are able to buy and sell magic items and that this is not an unduly arduous process. As you say, it's expected that it will be handled offscreen... but it will happen.

Lizard said:
Magic items ARE assumed in 4e, there WILL be lots of them, and they WON'T all auto-upgrade. So, either the PCs lug every useless item around with them, or -- fancy that -- they'll find buyers. And if there's buyers, one presumes, there will be sellers.

This is not at all a safe presumption. If most magic items are buried in dungeons guarded by nasty monsters, then the only people likely to be selling them are adventurers. Depending on the frequency of adventurers, the PCs may be the only people in hundreds of miles with magic items for sale.

And as far as I know, the only magic items assumed by the 4E mechanics are +weapon, +armor, and +resistance (cloak). Even that much can be stripped out of the game in a matter of minutes, or so saith Mearls. There is no longer "wealth by level," or if there is, it's not a major balance mechanic.

I don't know what the default level of magic items in modules will be, but the core mechanics no longer demand that PCs be able to freely buy and sell magic items during downtime.
 

Dausuul said:
Well, adding magic shops ought to be fairly trivial for anybody who wants to... not nearly as onerous as removing from 3E the ability to buy and sell magic items on a regular basis.

I don't see anything onerous about saying, "You cannot buy or sell magic items" in 3e. You say those words. End of problem.

Both games include costs for magic items. If you feel this means there "must be" magic shops, then, there are. If you don't, then, there aren't. Not really complex.



Are there any errors in terms of features 4E has? Or is it just the "3E lacks" part you object to?

The latter, as I have no knowledge of what 4e has. :) I simply grow tired of posts of the general form "ZOMG! In 4e, you can have a WIZARD who uses a SWORD!" or "This is SO COOL! In 4e, not EVERY humanoid encounter is BORING!". Sort of the equivalent of reading, in early 2000, a 3e playtest report which said, "And in 3E, you'll play a character who STARTS WEAK and then GETS MORE POWERFUL! Wow! It's SO DIFFERENT from 2e!" When I see people swooning over things like "In 4e, the DM can make a judgement call as to how to handle things not explicitly described in the rules!" (Because, you know, in 3e, the WOTC ninjas come and kill you if you try), I grow a bit irked.

But I digress.

Arguments go back and forth over whether 3E contains "magic shops" by default, but there is definitely an assumption that PCs are able to buy and sell magic items and that this is not an unduly arduous process. As you say, it's expected that it will be handled offscreen... but it will happen.

I've seen nothing which indicates this will not be true in 4e. Magic items have prices; this is the same fact which drives this assumption in 3e.

This is not at all a safe presumption. If most magic items are buried in dungeons guarded by nasty monsters, then the only people likely to be selling them are adventurers. Depending on the frequency of adventurers, the PCs may be the only people in hundreds of miles with magic items for sale.

Where did all those items come from? Who left them in the dungeons?

I don't know what the default level of magic items in modules will be, but the core mechanics no longer demand that PCs be able to freely buy and sell magic items during downtime.

I don't see where the 3e mechanics did, either. They assumed a certain level of magical prowess, but it's easy to eliminate buying/selling.

We can't in our current game. All of our found loot is the rightful property of our patron. She, in turn, makes sure we are properly equipped for the missions which she entrusts to us. IOW, we hand over all the goodies, and as we level up, we are told what items we find. (Well, this is only partially true -- I have a 'destined weapon' sort of thingy, which keeps revealing new powers, and a few other players have similair, but the point is, we're neither tomb robbers nor magic item merchants -- we're heroes. Powerful magic is turned over to the proper authorities, so it isn't lying around for evil folks to use. We're given the tools we need to do the jobs we have to do, and enough gold to live comfortably on. We meet the wealth-by-level guidelines, entirely without 'buying and selling' magic items.)
 

Lizard said:
I don't see anything onerous about saying, "You cannot buy or sell magic items" in 3e. You say those words. End of problem.

Except that it is then incumbent upon the DM to manage the characters' wealth by level even more closely than before; not only does the total loot handed out have to match up, but the DM must make sure that the characters get their WBL in items that are useful to them.

In 4E, all you have to do is make sure the characters get the right plusses on their weapon/implement, armor, and cloak. Those are the items that hit game balance. The rest add capabilities but don't touch the encounter math--they grant breadth but not depth.
 




Remove ads

Top