Magical Staff Weapons as Implements

[juggler434]

I have a cleric right now who is multiclassing into wizard. He just found a +2 Holy Healer's Staff. My question is can he use this as a +2 implement for his wizard powers. Its listed in the weapons section and not the implement section. Thanks.

 

[Starglim]

PHB p. 240, Staffs: "Fashioned either as a quarterstaff or a walking staff, it is also imbued with arcane enchantments so that you can channel your spells through it." If a magic item is not so imbued, you can't use it as an arcane implement, even if it happens to be stick-shaped.

 

[radja]

I'd allow it. you can use a magic (implement) staff as a weapon, including the enchantment. I treat it much like a spiked shield, which can be enchanted as a shield or as a weapon. no matter the enchantment, the shield can still function both as a weapon and a shield. a quarterstaff can be enchanted as a weapon or as an implement, and can be used as both.

 

[CapnZapp]

No, you're not supposed to be able to use one single item both as a (magic) implement and a (magic) weapon. You must choose.

Either choose implement and select one of the Staffs-as-implements (pp 241), or choose weapon and select one of the Staffs-as-weapons (pp 232).

Getting an item's enchantment bonus both on implement powers and weapon powers is not what the rules intend, it isn't allowed, and my guess is it isn't a good idea to allow as a house rule. Not because it becomes overpowered in the hands of a weakling Wizard, but because of future class combos.

 

[MrBeens]

No, you're not supposed to be able to use one single item both as a (magic) implement and a (magic) weapon. You must choose.

Either choose implement and select one of the Staffs-as-implements (pp 241), or choose weapon and select one of the Staffs-as-weapons (pp 232).

Getting an item's enchantment bonus both on implement powers and weapon powers is not what the rules intend, it isn't allowed, and my guess is it isn't a good idea to allow as a house rule. Not because it becomes overpowered in the hands of a weakling Wizard, but because of future class combos.

It is intended - here is the quote from PHB P240

"A staff is a shaft of wood as tall or slightly taller than
you are, sometimes crowned with a decorative crystal
or some other arcane fetish. Fashioned either as a
quarterstaff or a walking staff, it is also imbued with
arcane enchantments so that you can channel your
spells through it. Unlike other implements, a staff also
functions as a melee weapon (treat it as a quarterstaff ).
When used in melee, a staff applies its enhancement
bonus and critical damage dice just as a weapon does."

 

[Caliban]

It is specifically allowed in the case of the Swordmage (who use magic weapons as impliments), and in the case of Wizards of the Spiral Tower (who can use a magic Longsword as one of the 3 wizard implements).

According to the FAQ, in those cases Weapon Focus with the weapon will also add to damage when the weapon is used as an implement.

I don't think it's intended to work the same way with a quarterstaff, but I'm not as sure as I used to be.

 

[Spatula]

No, you're not supposed to be able to use one single item both as a (magic) implement and a (magic) weapon. You must choose.

Either choose implement and select one of the Staffs-as-implements (pp 241), or choose weapon and select one of the Staffs-as-weapons (pp 232).

Getting an item's enchantment bonus both on implement powers and weapon powers is not what the rules intend, it isn't allowed, and my guess is it isn't a good idea to allow as a house rule. Not because it becomes overpowered in the hands of a weakling Wizard, but because of future class combos.

There's quite a few examples of using one single item both as a (magic) implement and a (magic) weapon...
holy avenger
pact dagger
pact hammer, bow, etc. from AV
Wizard of the Spiral Tower PP
Swordmage

 

[Kordeth]

It is intended - here is the quote from PHB P240

"A staff is a shaft of wood as tall or slightly taller than
you are, sometimes crowned with a decorative crystal
or some other arcane fetish. Fashioned either as a
quarterstaff or a walking staff, it is also imbued with
arcane enchantments so that you can channel your
spells through it. Unlike other implements, a staff also
functions as a melee weapon (treat it as a quarterstaff ).
When used in melee, a staff applies its enhancement
bonus and critical damage dice just as a weapon does."

This. Note, however, that this is a one-way street. Magic staffs can be used as magic quarterstaves, but magic quarterstaves cannot be used as staffs.

 

[cmbarona]

This. Note, however, that this is a one-way street. Magic staffs can be used as magic quarterstaves, but magic quarterstaves cannot be used as staffs.

Err, sorry, but quick nitpick to avoid confusion: magic staff implements can be used as magic staff weapons, but magic staff weapons cannot be used as magic staff implements.

 

[Danceofmasks]

The one way street is far from certain.

Under the implements section of the wizard class, it states that a wizard can use staffs to power their spells, adding enhancement bonuses, etc.
Now, though this section is labeled as implements, keep in mind that a quarterstaff is from the weapon group staff.

Wizard picks up a quarterstaff.
Is it magic? Is it a staff? Answers are both yes.

Personally, the question is moot, 'cos there really isn't a reason for a wizard to use a quarterstaff ... 'cos it requires 2 hands.
But ... there is no certainty in RAW about this.