Maintaining a fort - what is needed

[Loonook]

1) The fort is on a hilltop, which I stated in the original post.
2) The underground level and the buildings were what was left of a long-abandoned & remote monastery. The bandit king constructed the wooden wall around the buildings to make it into a fort.
3) The bandit king had put a considerable dent in trade between the 3 kingdoms I had mentioned in another post above, and part of the reason the PCs were in the area was to gain a reward from one of the 3 kingdoms for curbing the bandit activity. All 3 kingdoms have other large issues (wars, or threats of war) that have prevented them from dealing fully with the bandit problem in a timely fashion. Plus, it was also outside of their actual kingdoms, so if one kingdom moved an army into fight the bandit king, the other 2 kingdoms might see it as a threatening move or a land grab.
4) Food was sometimes an issue for the bandits, but they had cowed enough local farmers into giving them food/goods that they managed to get by. They also had bands of bandits out and were expanding their turf beyond the immediate area of the fort in an attempt to get more resources. The 100+ square mile lake also provided ample fishing for the bandits and they did do some of that.

So you have a lake that would probably be in the top 20 largest inland lakes (excluding the Great Lakes) in the US, but there are no villages or cities taking advantage?

The lake you're speaking of would be a little smaller that Redwaters in Icewind Dale... In an unfavorable climate it supported two small cities (Dougan's Hole and Good Mead) that together would have had a population above 12k...

I'm assuming you're going off of Kingmaker's numbers. Don't. Kingmaker is... Humorous, to say the least. With such an obviously hospitable terrain the bandits may, admittedly, have cut trade... But they didn't just wipe out all civilization. Have emissaries come from the local towns within a week after the attacks have stopped and the Sword Lords (or your version) send their tribute... The people are ready to build again, and would love to have order back in their towns. Make your game real rather than take the guys who created creatures so ugly they sicken each other's words for it .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[NewJeffCT]

well, I'm playing it differently than Kingmaker, and using another setting entirely. I don't think the Forgotten Realms is perfect, either.

According to wikipedia, a 100 square mile lake would make this lake the 51st largest in the US. We can say #50 since I did say 100+ square miles. However, 100 square miles wouldn't make the 100 biggest lakes of Canada. It would crack the top 50 in Europe, but only just. So, I don't think the size of the lake is a problem, though the included map wasn't clear which rivers are flowing into the lake and which flow out from it.

The area is also going to eventually be populated by refugees from a kingdom to their northwest that has fallen into civil war after their king was assassinated. (They already encountered a group of 30+ refugees on the road to the bandit king's fort a few sessions back. The refugees had heard the bandit king was a good guy offering land & protection.)

 

[Derren]

The area is also going to eventually be populated by refugees from a kingdom to their northwest that has fallen into civil war after their king was assassinated. (They already encountered a group of 30+ refugees on the road to the bandit king's fort a few sessions back. The refugees had heard the bandit king was a good guy offering land & protection.)

I do not know if that will be a good thing.
Just look at refugee camps we have today. Refugees tend to have very little of value with them so can't really start a meaningful life in the PCs land. Basically the PCs first have to give them land, building materials and tools free of charge for them to recover and prosper. Also, who knows where their loyalities lie...

 

[NewJeffCT]

I do not know if that will be a good thing.
Just look at refugee camps we have today. Refugees tend to have very little of value with them so can't really start a meaningful life in the PCs land. Basically the PCs first have to give them land, building materials and tools free of charge for them to recover and prosper. Also, who knows where their loyalities lie...

Depends on the refugees as well - this group did have a few small carts with them. While they obviously don't have homes, there are plenty of forests around for wood, and enough people working together can build a simple home fairly quickly, as they don't have modern needs for utilities like electricity, air conditioning, etc.

 

[Nytmare]

I don't know. We're talking about a fort, not a village, right. The numbers really seem high to me, and a lot of the suggestions for specializations seem extraneous.

Just because you can fit 270 people, doesn't mean that you need to HIRE 270 people, does it? What are you fighting out here that you need almost 300 armed men to defend against? Did they have to fight through 270 bandits when they cleared the place out? I'd imagine that it's less "1 man for every 100 square feet" and more "1 man for every 10 feet of wall, and 2 men in reserve"

In general, I'd imagine that it's the troops who are doing most of these jobs. You don't need to cart out a theater troupe or brothel full of prostitutes. Someone brought a guitar, or a harmonica, or people would just sit around a fire and sing dirty songs, right?

 

[Derren]

In general, I'd imagine that it's the troops who are doing most of these jobs. You don't need to cart out a theater troupe or brothel full of prostitutes. Someone brought a guitar, or a harmonica, or people would just sit around a fire and sing dirty songs, right?

No.
At least not if you want to keep a larger band of mercenaries from rioting and/or deserting.

 

[Nytmare]

No.
At least not if you want to keep a larger band of mercenaries from rioting and/or deserting.

So every armed force, throughout history, dragged along at least one non combatant for every soldier?

I thought you used things like "money" to quell mercenaries, not tailors and bee keepers?

 

[Derren]

So every armed force, throughout history, dragged along at least one non combatant for every soldier?

I thought you used things like "money" to quell mercenaries, not tailors and bee keepers?

Not in a 1:1 ratio but yes, every larger force had a civilians following them for supplies, repairs and yes, also prostitutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_follower

Money for a mercenary is useless when he can't spend it, and without those camp followers, spending money in a fort a weeks journey from the next town is kinda difficult.

 

[Loonook]

Refugees will kill your kingdom... And again, there is no reason why some sort of towns do not exist on a giiiiiant lake in the midst of a three kingdom allegedly neutral territory with no outlying cities... That feeds into an enormous lake that then has rivers it feeds out to each location... But no cities .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[LostSoul]

Obviously the lake is cursed.

(That seems like it would make a nice adventure hook.)