Make Whole question

[nyoro_n]

Hi, I'm new to both the website and D&D. I've been in a campaign with a few people for about 2 months or so.

I have a question about the "Make Whole" Ritual, which I have on my Druid.

Make Whole says:
"A single object that can fit in a 10-foot cube is completely
repaired. The component cost is 20 percent of the item’s
cost. In cases where you attempt to repair an item not on
any price list, the DM determines the cost."

Now, my question is this:
I was looking around on Google about this ritual and i saw that in the previous versions, make whole wouldn't allow magical objects or creatures. In 4e, It only says "A single object that can fit in a 10-foot cube"

Will this work on a 2 month old burnt body remains to make it into just a corpse? (I assume the burnt body is in ashes now) Basically asking if it's possible to turn Ashes into Bones OR Ashes into a corpse.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think it was envisaged as working on inanimate objects only. There is also the question of just what the limitations should be. The ritual itself doesn't specify any beyond size considerations, but that could be problematic in some cases. For example it seems a bit too easy to fix some broken artifact with a simple low-level ritual.

I think it should pretty much "just work" on simple mundane inanimate objects that meet the size criteria. Some magic items might be repairable as well, say ones the caster could create if he were to use Enchant Item. So the DM might choose to break the fighter's sword, but the wizard could pretty easily fix it. Even if the item is above level the DM could allow it, perhaps with a bit higher cost or a chance of failure depending on what is appropriate to the situation. This way an unfortunate circumstance like this is fixable at some moderate cost but its not a freebie.

I think with things like bodies there should need to be some other form of magic involved. Raise Dead only requires a "piece of the body" so it doesn't seem like "repairing" a PCs body is necessary for that. There could be other reasons to want to make a body whole, but perhaps that should require some other form of magic? I don't know, it really depends on the situation. I can see it potentially opening up some rather odd things happening but if the DM is prepared for any consequences and thinks it feels appropriate, then he should let it happen.

 

[Nytmare]

(I assume the burnt body is in ashes now)

If I were the DM, I'd argue that ashes are several steps removed from a "broken" corpse. An axe handle couldn't be made whole into the branch it was fashioned from, the felled tree from which the branch came, or the seed, sun, water, and soil that started the process.

I'd also argue that the ashes alone don't comprise a significant enough chunk of the original object.

[EDIT]

However... now that I've looked up cremation in ye olde Wikipedia, complete ash remains appear to be a wee bit tough to come by. Modern cremated remains are burnt and dried out bones, which are then pulverized by a fancy machine into teenier pieces of burnt and dried out bones.

Barring a super powerful fire that was powerful enough to totally destroy/make the remains impossible to find, a medieval cremation is just going to leave you with a bunch of dried, brittle, and broken bone pieces.

So, in two parts, if I were the DM, I would #1 probably not hand you "ashes" in the traditional sense, and #2 not allow you to "make whole" cremated remains into anything other than an unburnt/unbroken skeleton.

 

[nyoro_n]

I think it was envisaged as working on inanimate objects only. There is also the question of just what the limitations should be. The ritual itself doesn't specify any beyond size considerations, but that could be problematic in some cases. For example it seems a bit too easy to fix some broken artifact with a simple low-level ritual.

Well the cost of the spell is something like 20% the cost of the item (or DM's cost).

If I were the DM, I'd argue that ashes are several steps removed from a "broken" corpse. An axe handle couldn't be made whole into the branch it was fashioned from, the felled tree from which the branch came, or the seed, sun, water, and soil that started the process.

I'd also argue that the ashes alone don't comprise a significant enough chunk of the original object.

[EDIT]

However... now that I've looked up cremation in ye olde Wikipedia, complete ash remains appear to be a wee bit tough to come by. Modern cremated remains are burnt and dried out bones, which are then pulverized by a fancy machine into teenier pieces of burnt and dried out bones.

Barring a super powerful fire that was powerful enough to totally destroy/make the remains impossible to find, a medieval cremation is just going to leave you with a bunch of dried, brittle, and broken bone pieces.

So, in two parts, if I were the DM, I would #1 probably not hand you "ashes" in the traditional sense, and #2 not allow you to "make whole" cremated remains into anything other than an unburnt/unbroken skeleton.

Here's a brief story on what happened in game.

My party and I somewhat stupidly killed a necromancer PC, who came to us for the payment of a Seeking Stone which some lackeys stole from a church's PC and sold it to her that our party stole back (because our Cleric and that church were the same religion) and now she's a ghost wanting to be alive again (probably need her to continue the quest) and she either prefers her own body, which the paladin burned and burried in a proper burial in game (note: i don't think it was "modern creamation" but just burn + bury) if not that, she'd possess a person (and the person "has to be sexy")

I was thinking of potential ways (tho we might just release her ghost from the world, who knows what's going to happen next session) of bringing her back to life, even though at least one other person (the paladin for sure) doesn't trust a necromancer (tho for our campaign, she could be useful) with some being "making a doll for her to possess" and some other things i forgot. And I was wondering if quite possibly "Make Whole" would turn either ashes or maybe even bones whole (since theoretically, both are "inanimate objects") into either ash -> bones -> body or bones -> body. (a dead body is theoretically "inanimate") The only thing is, the cost to do that (according to PHP ritual section) is 20% of initial cost / DM's price and the price of bones are priceless.

I was thinking about "Raise Dead" but from what i remember, we killed the necromancer over 30 days prior meeting her in her ghost form. (in game time of course) Unless, of course, the DM decides to change it from 30 days to 60days or something along that line.

 

[UltimaGabe]

For example it seems a bit too easy to fix some broken artifact with a simple low-level ritual.

The ritual costs 20% of the item's cost, so if that "low-level ritual" costs hundreds of thousands of gp to cast (or the ritual automatically fails because most artifacts have no cost) it's not exactly "easy", is it?

 

[Turtlejay]

20% of the cost could be the life of one in the circle of five casting the spell. . .

20% could be 20% of your surges for some extended period. . .

20% could be a tithe of 1/5 of your days in service to whatever power refomed the body. . .

Like many open ended rules questions, this one can be easily maneuvered into a great roleplaying opportunity. The best part is, all you are doing is reforming the body, she is still *dead* and any ritual to bring her back from that might have other, associated or conflicting costs. If you want to be a bastard about it.

Jay