Making a cleric/rogue

[moritheil]

I'm coming late to this, but let me cast my vote for CC as well.

I also third the Cloistered Cleric variant.

anybody got ideas for a cleric who'd like some rogue abilities, but not have to sacrifice 1 or 2 levels of spell casting?

Sacrifice none? No, not without the DM okaying some odd modifications. But if I were you, I'd play a Ninja 1/Cloistered Cleric X and get Wis to AC. Then I'd throw in 2 levels of Divine Oracle for evasion. You only lose 1 level of casting, and have Wis to AC, trapfinding and evasion, plus the ability to turn invisible as a swift action. You can burn cleric spell slots via certain spells to boost your skill checks when needed.

As others have said, you'd want to spend a domain choice on Trickery.

 

[Gloombunny]

Or talk with your DM and see if he's willing to adapt the Arcane Trickster to a Divine Trickster?

The guy who writes Order of the Stick did that: http://www.giantitp.com/Func0015.html

I like it, except it has the same problem as Arcane Trickster where you have to take 8 levels of painfully suboptimal multiclassing before you qualify. Shadowbane Stalker has the advantage of being entered a few levels earlier.

 

[Nifft]

The guy who writes Order of the Stick did that: http://www.giantitp.com/Func0015.html

I like it, except it has the same problem as Arcane Trickster where you have to take 8 levels of painfully suboptimal multiclassing before you qualify. Shadowbane Stalker has the advantage of being entered a few levels earlier.

Skills: Bluff 9 ranks, Hide 9 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Disable Device 4 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd level divine spells from the Chaos, Luck, or Trickery domains.
Special: Sneak Attack +2d6 class ability, Turn Undead class ability.

How do you get level 8 out of that? Seems like the most obvious way in is Rogue 3 / Cleric 3.

(Also, IMHO "Surprise for the Dead" should only last one round, or should be eliminated entirely, but that may just be me.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Will]

You know, I was just chatting with some folks about this, and they pointed out that a very good way to do this is... be a bard.

Think about it.

 

[moritheil]

You know, I was just chatting with some folks about this, and they pointed out that a very good way to do this is... be a bard.

Think about it.

I think it comes down to what you think of when you think of the essential quality of a rogue. Is it skill points and the ability to bluff your way out of anything? Is it sneakiness? Sneak attack? Depending on how you answer that, different class/race combos will probably be more appealing.

The bard (or divine bard, or prestige bard) is a good fit for the skillmonkey, casting, and stealth aspects, lacking only the devastating sneak attack. Granted, most other builds suggested here lack that as well.

 

[Gloombunny]

How do you get level 8 out of that? Seems like the most obvious way in is Rogue 3 / Cleric 3.

(Also, IMHO "Surprise for the Dead" should only last one round, or should be eliminated entirely, but that may just be me.)

...huh. I could've sworn it had requirements much like Arcane Trickster and that Surprise for the Dead didn't last so long. I wonder if he changed it since I first read it, or if my memory just sucks. ^_^;;

 

[Will]

Moritheil:
Very good points, yeah. It really depends on identifying exactly what kind of 'rogue cleric' you want and what you want to get out of it.

What's nice is that 3e has a lot of options.

If you want essentially a rogue with a touch of divine to her, Temple Raider of Olidammara isn't a bad option, I think.

 

[Nifft]

...huh. I could've sworn it had requirements much like Arcane Trickster and that Surprise for the Dead didn't last so long. I wonder if he changed it since I first read it, or if my memory just sucks. ^_^;;

Nah, I think it's always been like that. I remember it because I was in an argument about "Surprise for the Dead" lasting too long a while ago.

But Rich does invite such errors by explicitly referencing the Arcane Trickster, both in his write up and in the class's name.

Cheers, -- N

PS: IMHO it needs more skill points and fewer special abilities. Were I writing the PrC anew, I'd give it 8 skill points, sneak attack, and full spellcasting. With all the spells from newer sources, that's enough to make it worth taking.

 

[Dice4Hire]

You know, I was just chatting with some folks about this, and they pointed out that a very good way to do this is... be a bard.

Think about it.

Not really.

A bard lacks Turn Undead, which as sourcebook after sourcebook comes out, is more and more valuable. With Complete Champion it is getting overpowered. Healing Devotion, anyone?

A Bard also lacks Trapfinding, another good requirement for a rogue/cleric build. If you do not worry about trapfinding, a cloistered cleric with Able Learner is an even more obvious choice for a strong roguish cleric type. Full cleric casting and half skill ranks in most good rogue abilities is pretty strong.

 

[Dice4Hire]

PS: IMHO it needs more skill points and fewer special abilities. Were I writing the PrC anew, I'd give it 8 skill points, sneak attack, and full spellcasting. With all the spells from newer sources, that's enough to make it worth taking.

That would be unbalanced.