Making a cleric/rogue

[Darklone]

If you don't mind the lack of Turn Undead... have a look at the daggerspell shaper. A real great divine roguish class with good skills, strong fighting, spellcasting and last but not least: you can start as scout too... I prefer skirmish to sneak attack (POUNCE!).

 

[Nifft]

That would be unbalanced.

?

-- N

 

[moritheil]

?

-- N

I think he's suggesting that 8 skill points, full casting, and sneak attack progression seems too powerful compared to Arcane Trickster.

IMO the issue here is whether or not it should be balanced against AT (which is weak.)

Full cleric casting and half skill ranks in most good rogue abilities is pretty strong.

Once you take a class, your skill cap is as though you had taken all your levels in that class. The cost of each rank is what changes when you multiclass out. This is what makes the Able Learner feat so great: it doesn't increase your skill cap, but it fixes cost issues, and the skill cap is already maxed if you just take one level in a class where the skill is in-class.

With the right PrC or with a one-level dip in ninja (which I suggested earlier) you can get those max ranks and get Wisdom to AC as well.

 

[Dice4Hire]

With the right PrC or with a one-level dip in ninja (which I suggested earlier) you can get those max ranks and get Wisdom to AC as well.

I took a look through my books, and I would have to agree ninja is the strongest one-level dip for trapfinding. Some prestige classes are good, but I'd rather pick up trapfinding at 1st or 2nd level.

And for ninja-cloistered that choice would depend most on what skills you want to focus on early.

 

[Nifft]

I think he's suggesting that 8 skill points, full casting, and sneak attack progression seems too powerful compared to Arcane Trickster.

IMO the issue here is whether or not it should be balanced against AT (which is weak.)

I consider my version a nerf, but also a better fit for the concept. So I'm curious how it could be overpowered. (Not that I expect you to answer for him, of course.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Thanael]

Divine trickster is pretty scary, actually. But you gotta be a gnome, for good or ill.

That's another Divine Trickster. There's two: one from Races of Stone, and one by Rich Burlew.

 

[moritheil]

I consider my version a nerf, but also a better fit for the concept. So I'm curious how it could be overpowered. (Not that I expect you to answer for him, of course.)

Cheers, -- N

A nerf relative to what - Rich Burlew's class, or the SRD Arcane Trickster? I was guessing earlier that the label of "overpowered" was applied relative to the Arcane Trickster.

 

[Nifft]

A nerf relative to what - Rich Burlew's class, or the SRD Arcane Trickster? I was guessing earlier that the label of "overpowered" was applied relative to the Arcane Trickster.

You'd have to ask the guy who posted it, no? I sure don't know what he thought.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Shin Okada]

Sacrificing 1 or 2 levels of spell casting is a default cost for any something/spellcaster prestige class. If you have full spellcasting ability AND other class's ability (rogue abilities, full BAB, etc.), that makes your character simply stronger than as straight spell caster and it never happens without using UA rules which meant not to be balanced against usual characters.

By the way, I actually played Shadowbane Stalker in a campaign and he was a super problem solver. Divine Insight was so great when combined with rogue abilities. You found DC 35 magical trap? Disable device with +15 skill boost. You must tumble past an opponent square and the DC for the tumble check is too high? Trigger Divine Insight.

The alternative to this could be Rogue or Scout 1-2/Cleric forever. This way, unlike Shadowbane Stalker build, you can keep having reasonably high Turn Undead ability (especially if your play group is using alternative rule in Complete Divine). Be a Human and take Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny. Now you can buy Rogue class skills at 1 skill point per level even when leveling up as a cleric. If you invest 14 for your int, you can get 5 skill points per level and thus can easily max out Disable Device and Search, then take other skills necessary at reasonable level. Again, use Divine Insight whenever you need to beat high DC skill checks.

 

[Wycen]

Looks like the Able Learner feat is a good choice. I'm not so convinced about a cloistered cleric however. That is really based on our Ptolus game where the cloistered cleric is a push over.

We were supposed to do Ptolus 2 weeks ago but not enough people showed, so we did a 1 shot pick up game with 5th level characters. I tried a Factotum. I really liked it, especially when I realized the inspiration points renew for every encounter. Of course, a factotum is not a rogue/cleric.