D&D General Making and surviving the break…

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
What is interesting to me is that this will inevitably lead to people arguing what a new edition actually is. I mean, how much has to change before you call it a new edition? There will certainly be people that will state, "Well, they kept the abilities and classes and subclasses the same, so it is not a new edition," while others will say, "They changed how background feats and bonuses work, and took species and changed the heck out of them, so it is a new edition." ;)
Already happening. Paizo is stripping out a few items mostly just dropping unimportant things for a refresh out of the OGL. Folks are adamant that it is PF2.5. 🤷‍♂️
 

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Clint_L

Hero
What is interesting to me is that this will inevitably lead to people arguing what a new edition actually is. I mean, how much has to change before you call it a new edition? There will certainly be people that will state, "Well, they kept the abilities and classes and subclasses the same, so it is not a new edition," while others will say, "They changed how background feats and bonuses work, and took species and changed the heck out of them, so it is a new edition." ;)
It will, and has, inevitably led to grognards arguing about whether or not it is a new edition, because TSR trained us into understanding that "edition" equals "new version of the game; time to decide whether to buy new books." Half of the people on this forum who have strong opinions on this matter don't even play 5e and never will, so their opinion is more or less meaningless from WotC's point of view. For the most part, we have already made up our minds. But we're not the point. It's not about us.

The point is to make it so that new players don't worry about "editions" and the game is allowed to naturally, slowly evolve with the times. Here's what I see with all my newer players: no one knows or cares that D&D has had many previous editions that were substantially different. In my regular gaming group, everyone knows but could care less. Sometimes, after a player gets really into the game they start looking up old editions, and I had one who had basically memorized AD&D (1e) because her dad played it. But for the most part, the editions argument is meaningless to them. They just know "D&D."

And that's what WotC wants to preserve. It's about the future of the game, not the past.
 
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And that's what WotC wants to preserve. It's about the future of the game, not the past.
I completely agree. But there is something to consider with your statement above. The future of the game is intricately tied to the past, and therefore, depends on the past. So to have a future they have to recognize and tie in their past.

The young 20 somethings that will soon have spending power will be the past sooner than we think.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
What is interesting to me is that this will inevitably lead to people arguing what a new edition actually is. I mean, how much has to change before you call it a new edition? There will certainly be people that will state, "Well, they kept the abilities and classes and subclasses the same, so it is not a new edition," while others will say, "They changed how background feats and bonuses work, and took species and changed the heck out of them, so it is a new edition." ;)
Which is (part of) why I consider "One D&D" to be clearly a half-edition. The argument from "above," as it were, one more or less presuming that a game update is a new edition unless it keeps changes sufficiently small. The other argument from "below," which is what I have used previously, presumes a change is not an edition unless it crosses a sufficient boundary.

"One D&D" is highly comparable to the 3.5e "revision." Some classes are getting dramatically changed (Warlock) to the point that they won't be compatible with one another. Others are likely to get significant but not total reworks (Bard, Druid, and Ranger seem to be high on that list—notable since Ranger was one of the heavily modified classes in 3.5e), and there will be a major overhaul of the spell list and character features. Some spells aee being heavily changed, and many new ones are being added. New BGs genuinely replace old ones; you will need to perform some conversion (not a lot, but some) to make use of them. Long rest design is almost totally replacing short rest design because people don't actually play the game in a way compatible with a heavily hybrid model. Etc.

Conversely, much is not changing. The damage scaling amounts, degrees, and levels are the same or almost totally equivalent. Extra Attack and cantrip scaling still happens as intended, for example. Monsters will be structured differently, but function essentially the same, and items will work almost completely the same. Hence, there will be little to no need to convert most modules, except those which set specific backgrounds or use pre-defined characters for players to use (which I don't think any first-party products have done?)

So, it's pretty clearly less than a total edition break (the argument from below.) But it changes rather a lot of things that are part of such a break (the argument from above.) As noted, these changes are quite similar to the 3rd->3.5e changes, meant to tighten up design (meant to, anyway...), fix loopholes, and bring the experience closer to the original design intent, while enriching the early game experience.

Hence, whatever they call it, I think it is both reasonable and practical to refer to it as 5.5e. It's not an edition change, but it also isn't literally just offering new alternatives which function ever so slightly differently. The Warlock alone proves that much; it is clearly a replacement of the existing (and, IMO, infinitely more interesting) Warlock class.
 


payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
Oh interesting, I would love to see a citation of that somewhere
I dont have the citation, but I did see this somewhere by a Paizo person. I was a surprised given my enthusiastic PF1 group did not make the change to PF2. The Paizo boards have died (though discord and reddit are very active) and 5E is killing it. Then, I realized that the entire gaming community seems to be way larger than it was in '09. Pretty sweet if you ask me.
 

I dont have the citation, but I did see this somewhere by a Paizo person. I was a surprised given my enthusiastic PF1 group did not make the change to PF2. The Paizo boards have died (though discord and reddit are very active) and 5E is killing it. Then, I realized that the entire gaming community seems to be way larger than it was in '09. Pretty sweet if you ask me.
Agreed that it's pretty sweet, TTRPGS are reaching the point now where they can exist in hobby spaces offline and thrive, which is neato
 

Just sort of a drive-by thought. The point of feeling left behind isn't just an emotional thing. It's also a very real logistical issue with new players. New players expect D&D means the current edition. If you invite people to play to them, they may rightly feel dissatisfied with, "Okay, so we're using the 30 year old version of the rules I prefer, because modern D&D is dumb."

Every time the rules change we lose the ability to play with people.
 

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