Making D&D SUPER-heroic without changing systems

Herobizkit said:
I've been trying to come with ways of making the campaign more SUPER-fantastic.
What does that mean?
Herobizkit said:
With the way the system is now, I worry way too much about stuff like picking monsters that equal his CR AND have a ridiculous amount of resistances, making sure he has sufficient gear, making sure his cohort NPCs are helpful when they need to be, and so on.
Why do you worry about those things? Present a scenario where a number of competent warriors are challenged by a horde of orcs, and have your hero wipe the floor with them. He's already superpowerful; let him show it off.
 

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bolen said:
I am not quite sure what you mean are you if your talking superhero characteristics then you might need to use new rules (but in any genre you will always be able to throw monsters that the characters can’t beat) But it sounds like you just need to bump up the character’s levels (maybe epic) or maybe I’m missing the point.
Well, I was pretty vague. :heh:

Specifically, I am looking to recreate the Superhero genre in a fantasy world setting, both mechanically and thematically.

As I mentionned earlier, I am running a solo campaign. The "hero" is, by definition, the one who people turn to for help when they can't help themselves. In a D&D campaign, this is par for the course. But I'm looking for more of a Smallville/Hercules feel than a "traditional" D&D game.

For example, my current "mission" for the hero involves leading a small band of cohorts into the heart of an enemy stronghold whose occupants are as of yet unknown. He'll be facing a bunch of formians, followed by a "villain of the week" foe equal to or stronger than the hero.

Because the hero is expected to take on "the villain" one-on-one, I have to be careful not to mash him into paste, either by just making the monster really strong or using a monster with resistances that the hero cannot overcome (although in retrospect this might be an idea for a future adventure).

I envision the hero taking on a giant. Instead of the D&D "I stand here and swing, so does he, until one of us dies", I want to recreate the exciting comic-book-like action of a Superheroic adventure.

I'm still grasping at straws here... does that make it a little more clear?
 
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mmadsen said:
What does SUPER-fantastic mean?
Specifically, I am trying to run a Superhero-themed adventure in a medieval fantasy (for now) setting. For example, if Superman were in Greyhawk, how would he handle "traditional" D&D-like adventures, given his array of abilities?

Why do you worry about those things? Present a scenario where a number of competent warriors are challenged by a horde of orcs, and have your hero wipe the floor with them. He's already superpowerful; let him show it off.
True, but this is where the "theme" needs to be addressed. Any D&D character can wipe the floor with a room full of orcs; I am looking for more over-the-top, comic-book-esque scenarios where it's one man vs. the other big bad guy. The trick with D&D is that the big bad guy can't be mechanically "stronger" than the hero without killing him outright, but he also can't be such a pushover that it's not worth the hero's bother to face it. It's theme vs. mechanics and I'm trying to find the best mesh of both without having to change to an actual superhero engine (such as Mutants and Masterminds).

Clear as mud?
 

I've been contemplating much the same thing lately - I blame the X-Men movies:)

There are a few thematic differences between stock D&D and a superhero story. First is lethality: in D&D you kill your opponents and take their stuff. In contrast, superheroes often defeat their foes non-lethally (although the villains have no such compunctions) and don't take their stuff - that's called stealing. One thing I've thought of doing is to make the characters into quasi-legal enforcers who get paid a small fee for bringing criminals to justice *alive* with proof of their misdeeds. Any deaths lead to serious investigations that could have really bad repercussions. License to capture, but not kill.

On a related note, the concentration on acquisition of equipment and cash in D&D is distinctly non-superheroic. Bruce Wayne is wealthy, therefore Batman has cool toys. He doesn't have to take a mugger's wallet to get better gadgets. (maybe Vow of Poverty actually has a place somewhere! *wink*)

The third major difference is themed character abilities. In D&D, the capabilities of spellcasters change drastically every other level: invisibility, fireball, dimension door, raise dead, harm, greater teleport, discern location, and wish all completely change how the game is played when they're introduced. It's the antithesis of superheroes with their relatively static character-defining powers.

I think if you address those three points, you stand a reasonable chance of having a superheroic game of D&D. That'd be pretty fun!
-blarg
 



blargney the second said:
There are a few thematic differences between stock D&D and a superhero story. First is lethality: in D&D you kill your opponents and take their stuff. In contrast, superheroes often defeat their foes non-lethally (although the villains have no such compunctions) and don't take their stuff - that's called stealing. One thing I've thought of doing is to make the characters into quasi-legal enforcers who get paid a small fee for bringing criminals to justice *alive* with proof of their misdeeds. Any deaths lead to serious investigations that could have really bad repercussions. License to capture, but not kill.

On a related note, the concentration on acquisition of equipment and cash in D&D is distinctly non-superheroic. Bruce Wayne is wealthy, therefore Batman has cool toys. He doesn't have to take a mugger's wallet to get better gadgets. (maybe Vow of Poverty actually has a place somewhere! *wink*)
These two ideas kind of compliment one another. If your PC's are bringing in the bad guys, why NOT do it for pay?

The "Hero" IMC is the Prince and soon to be King of a small settlement in a tropical archipelago of islands. I am running a "New World" kind of game where he sails from island to island, searching for survivors of a supernatural holocaust that shattered his original kingdom into pieces. Along the way, he finds other islands with new and bizarre inhabitants; at present, he has encountered wemics, grippli, lizardmen, sahuagin, shape-shifting elves ("borrowed" from OA's hengeyokai) and savage humans, and will soon encounter formians, giants, and others of his "kind" (dubbed Seraphim, using Half-Celestial and Planetouched races as his 'people'). So he's rich (kinda) and he's very Bruce Wayne-like, until he discovers an enslaved people or harm is done to his own, in which case he becomes all hellfire and fury.

The third major difference is themed character abilities. In D&D, the capabilities of spellcasters change drastically every other level: invisibility, fireball, dimension door, raise dead, harm, greater teleport, discern location, and wish all completely change how the game is played when they're introduced. It's the antithesis of superheroes with their relatively static character-defining powers.
The joy of my campaign is that it is consideraly low-magic. In fact, magic is slowly dying; high-level casters are losing their highest spell slots at a rate of about one a month. Once magic is gone, it will be replaced by psionics, followed by a "rebirth" of magic using Elements of Magic: Myhtic Earth. By this time, the "Hero" should be in/around Modern times, and it will fit in very nicely.

It really is a shame sometimes that I only have one player. But then again, I can't get into the level of detail that I enjoy in a campaign with a group of players. :)
 
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1) Define the Super-Hero. Superman has superspeed, immunity to almost everything (except Kryptonite and... MAGIC!), supervision, superhearing, laservision, immunity to disease & poison, adaptability to heat, cold, pressure, radiation, acid, etc., etc., ad nauseum, the ability to leap and fly, etc. What does this PC have?

Once you know, give him the abilities that he needs to do it, in game. DR Infinity/Kryptonite or Magic, immunities, Swim & Fly speeds, faster movement rates, At-Will "Spell" usage (which can be cancelled in Anti-Magic Spheres), (Ex.) Abilities, etc.

So you want to get rid of the equipment problems? Free Monk levels do a lot, as does Improved Grapple. You can also give him "Force-Armor" and an appropriate "Weapon of Force" which are weighless, work against Immaterial/Incorporeal creatures, and are always present, and/or his natural weapons function under an (Ex.) Ability similar to the Greater Magic Fang spell. Later, allow him to imbue them with Bane, Holy, and/or other qualities.

The D&D version of "Spider-Man", for instance, gets Constantly-On Bull's Strength, and At-Will use of Spider-Climb and Web (as well as some (Ex.) "Swinger" Abilities).

2) Carefully consider what the PC CAN'T do... Supers who AREN'T immune to poison & disease are easily taken out! Those without Fast Healing/Regeneration won't last much longer than usual! Those not immune to Negative Energy will become Undead, soon enough!

Even in a Supers campaign where I created a hero pretty much immune to EVERYTHING, that didn't solve his problems! Once, while charging an Autocannon, he found that, while the 50mm shells couldn't hurt him, he was being knocked back further than he could run, and thus never got anywhere close to his target, so he couldn't smash it! In another episode, a Super-Villian picked up a big chunk of concrete and threw it at him... While the hit did him no harm, my PC's normal STR was insufficient to LIFT it, and he was PINNED by the block (fortunately, he had a burrow speed, but by the time he managed to dig his way out, the fight was over)!

In other words, everybody has problems! Even if you can Teleport Without Error, at will, you still can only go where you have already been, or can see. It DOES make equipment less important, though! ;)

3) Consider the Weakness(es). Smallville had a Freak-of-the-Weak who made a Kryptonite bullet, and shot Clark with it. I've been WAITING for this to happen! Likewise, it is OBVIOUS that Mordent, the Super-Mage, has a weakness of Anti-Magic Shell. (Ex.) Super-STR Hercules isn't immune to Paralyzation (good thing he never fought Ghouls, huh?)

You might also want to tie in weaknesses to Super-Powers... How many times has a superhearing PC had problems with a Sonic attack? How do supersmelling PCs respond to Ghasts?!?

With all the energy types (which DR does NOT effect - See Energy Resistance), different attack types, etc., no Super-D&Der will be immune to everything! Hercules, besides Paralyzation problems, would have a heck of a time with Telekinesis and/or Reverse Gravity! ("AHHHHHhhhhhh!!!" <ThwumpPP!>)

Figure out some way to make your Player's PC immune to what he needs to be immune to, and then use his weakness(es) to allow the Super-Villian to make his abilities not matter... Herc, again, encountered a son of some earthy goddess who he killed, like, three times, who kept regenerating while in contact with the earth. In order to defeat him, he had to lift him off the ground, and tear him apart, there.

4) Knockbacks. In supers games, PCs get knocked back, into (and THROUGH!) things, all the time! Institue a Knockback rule... For every 5 HP of damage a character takes, he is knocked back one foot. Knockbacks of 5' or less simply become a 5' step. 6'+ requires a DC:20 Balance check (or Reflex save), or you fall down (AoO provoked by rising)! Being knocked back into objects does falling damage (1D3/5'). This does half damage to the character, and half to the object hit. Stoneskin, DR, etc., as well as armor, absorb some of this damage, acting as Hardness.

I think that should just about do it! Now pass out some free Feats to Supers (Heroes as well as Villians), to make combat the style you want (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Fly-by Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Captain America's Shield Feats, etc.), and you're there! (I think there's even a knockback-style Feat for Giants!)

Have fun!
 
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