Making enemies dangerous that don't have magic

[Halivar]

I need some practical help here.

I want my level 8 (maybe nine by the time they get there) gestalt PCs to face famous and powerful group of half-orc bandits. The encounter needs to be challenging, and the PCs need to go into it expecting it to be so.

The problem is that this is a relatively low magic world and the bandits would have no logical access to magic weapons, armor, or potions. I considered making one of them a sorcerer, and I'm still playing with that idea, but that still wouldn't provide the level weapons a typical CR 9-10 group would have. Most of the creatures they encounter are rare monsters in the deep, unexplored depths of the continent. But now they reaproach more mundane lands.

So the question to you all is How do I put together a magicless bandit party that would intimidate a level 8-9 party (paladin/rogue, druid/ranger, cleric/sorcerer, cleric/fighter)?
Would a level 12 group be level 9-10 without magic equipment?

R

 

[painandgreed]

Lots of hide, move silently, missle weapons with run and fire while moving feats. I think they could do it right where they could begin movement behind an obstacle, move, fire while moving, and then finish movement behind an obstacle again. With some decent movement they could force the battle to be totally missle combat which they'd be min maxed for. Add poison for additional affect. Maybe even a str or dex based poison to cut the efficiency of the party because as Str falls, armored PCs will move slower if encumbered and as dex falls, their missle combat will suffer.

Pet animals. The half-orcs have animal handleing and have used it over the years to train "pets" which might even include monsters with special abilities.

Traps. If the half-orcs can force the battle to happen on home ground, then the PCs would be faced with traps the half-orcs have full knowledge of but the PCs don't have time to search for. Combine this with the missle based combat above and it could put the PCs in some trouble as if they try and close the distance they will run into traps. If they try and disarm or even search for traps, they'll be targets for missle fire. The bandits will of course go for spell casters first since they usually have the lowest AC and can cast ranged attacks.

Good escape routes. If the PCs ambush them or get the upper hand, they all run away leading PCs on a chase (see traps above). They'll regroup and try their own ambush later, hopefully after the PCs buffs have worn off.

Good intelligence. If the bandits have allies or agents in the lands the PCs are coming fro and the PCs have been too loud about what they're doing, the bandits may have all the information on them they want to set up an ambush. If the PCs take too much time and get too confident,t he bandits may be able to attack first before the party has even left civilization using tricks on an unsuspecting party to lure one or two members away and attack them while they're alone if they fall for it.

Dirty tricks. If they get information as above, does the party have freinds, family, contacts. The bandits may not be able to threaten the party, but they could threaten those that the party cares about. Would the party be willign to cut a deal if attacking the bandits meant subjecting others to attacks by bandits that have already left the camp and are in postition?

 

[Poster Bard]

Poison

 

[painandgreed]

I you really want to make them dangerous, get some more players. Have them stat and build the charactes and when they party goes to fight them, have them play the bandits. Even if you just have one person play all the bandits and you just play impartial judge, I bet the bandits will be twice as deadly as they normally would even given the same stats and resorces.

 

[MadMaxim]

A barbarian/sorcerer/rage mage (Complete Warrior) could sound suitable for a half-orc warband. Sure, they get a penalty on their Charisma, but I believe it would be very interesting once the rage mage goes into a spell rage and his fireballs suddenly start to hurt a whole lot!

 

[mythago]

Tactics.

Even if the rogue can find traps, he or she might not find *all* of them. And the bandits are probably quite experienced at making their group seem bigger and more dangerous than they really are.

 

[Nightfall]

Do you think perhaps they might have say a half dragon leading them? I mean I know it's low magic but that might work out.

Templates that augment an orc/half orc's traits might do.

Lots of allies.

 

[Dog Moon]

Make the bandit leader Gestalt too. It's important not to make every single bandit Gestalt because you want to make Gestalt seem like a rare and special thing, but let them know that they aren't the only special people in the world.

 

[mythago]

Lots of allies.

Or pets. It's amazing how dangerous a well-trained pack of wolf hybrid dogs can be in the right NPC hands...

 

[domino]

How are the players equipped?