making firearms more deadly (deadlier?)

[S'mon]

Glassjaw,

Here is what I did ot make them scary. All firearms ignore all armor. Magic armor is no benefit. The PC's AC is simply 10 + Dex modifier.

Making them Touch attacks is obvious and realistic. You could say their high velocity makes Deflection ineffective, too. I would avoid pumping up the damage much, IRL a heavy crossbow bolt is usually a lot worse than a 9mm pistol slug. The scary thing about guns is that anyone can use them effectively and they are dangerous to even the greatest warrior.

 

[HellHound]

This is great data, but you may want to check what 'assault cases' this covers. If it includes suicides and gang killings, the data may be weighted toward the head.

It does, but it -also- includes accidental firearm discharges (which hit limbs most of the time).

 

[HellHound]

Most of all ... when does it cease being fun?

If we have to roll a dozen different tables to find out where that thug's lucky bullet strike actually hit and whose spleen it blasted, are we having fun?

And if somebody's PC has a 1-in-10 chance of dying every time combat starts, is anybody really going to have fun playing a game with that kind of attrition.

I ran CyberPunk for ten years. A headshot in cyberpunk is a death sentence, epecially in a game where 'Cool' is important and therefore people don't where helmets.

We had a metric boatload of fun.

 

[Frostmarrow]

[TONGUE IN CHEEK] I'll be honest, I've never been a big fan of the way d20 handles swords. Most of the time they are just glorified clubs and they don't really evoke the kind of fear I want in a game. I also have an idea for a setting in which swords do exist, but they are very rare and perhaps even illegal for the "general public" to own. I want the PC's to be afraid when a BBEG pulls out some kind of nasty steel-tongue.

One of my really simple ideas involves using the VP/WP system (which I will most likely be using in my next homebrew campaign).

My proposed changed is that any weapon classified as a sword inflicts VP as well as WP damage. My thought is that you can try to dodge out of the way but if you get hit, it's tough to "roll" with a swordtip to the chest. I also plan to use armor as DR that reduces WP damage only.

The only caveat to this is explaining the "it's only a flesh wound" cirumstance. I guess that could be interpreted with the damage roll of the weapon but VP is supposed to represent the hero's ability to turn a lethal blow into something minor (a la a flesh wound).

Another idea is to just increase the damage of swords but with the VP/WP system, it isn't really a question of straight damage.

My purpose isn't to completely rewrite the sword damage rules, just to make them deadlier so that even a high-level hero will think twice about some punk with a blade. [/TONGUE IN CHEEK]

 

[GlassJaw]

That was pretty weak Frost.

 

[Frostmarrow]

That was pretty weak Frost.

Yeah. I realised. I was just about to remove it when I saw that you had already spotted it. Sorry. It was not very nice of me since we are in the house rules forum after all.

Again, I'm sorry. If it's any consolation it was meant as a joke.

 

[GlassJaw]

If it's any consolation it was meant as a joke.

Oh, I definitely know it was a joke - and I understand the point you were trying to make - but when you repeat someone's words like that it comes across as condescending.

Like I said somewhere in this thread, I'm not convinced myself that firearms need a power boost. The point you sort of made is one of the reasons. Is getting shot really much different mechanically than getting whacked with a sword?

To get back to the abstract hp discussion, my issue isn't with the amount of damage a specific firearm deals. It's what the hp damage the firearm deals represents.

Think about two people fighting with swords. A "hit" could represent a last-second parry, a glancing blow off your armor, a quick sidestep, or a flurry of blows that puts you on the defensive, etc. Now if take a "hit" from someone with a firearm, what does the hp loss mean? I suppose it could mean a Neo-esque dodge out of the way or that you were grazed by the bullet.

I just feel that there is less "abstractness" with getting shot as there is getting "hit" with a melee weapon.

What's unrealistic is not that someone might survive multiple gunshot wounds; it's that they know they cannot be killed (or even really hurt) by less than a dozen gunshots wounds.

This alludes to my example above. Taking multiple hits with a sword can be rationalized. I'm not sure the same can be said for getting shot multiple times.

 

[CarlZog]

I ran CyberPunk for ten years. A headshot in cyberpunk is a death sentence, epecially in a game where 'Cool' is important and therefore people don't where helmets.

We had a metric boatload of fun.

Cyberpunk has been cited to me numerous times as a really good firearms system. I owned a copy of the boxed set years ago when it first came out, but never got a chance to play. Based on recommendations, I've just recently picked up another copy on ebay. Haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Carl

 

[Frostmarrow]

This alludes to my example above. Taking multiple hits with a sword can be rationalized. I'm not sure the same can be said for getting shot multiple times.

Oi, you need to see Man on Fire with Denzel Washington. It's amazing how much abuse that man can take and still look for real.

To me hitpoints is sort of hero points. If you've got enough to be sure to survive a gunshot then you are a hero. It's no stranger than knowing you can go three rounds against a professional boxer without fear of being knocked out. It's hard-coded into the system.

Most ordinary people have 1d4 damage and they fear pugilists, daggers and small arms. They die if hit. You can easily pin ordinary people by pointing a gun at them. Sadly, this won't work on heroes. This happened to me once. An NPC turned a bow and arrow on my PC but I refused to back down. The GM simply told me to drop to 0 hp. In his mind I was at the archer's mercy. I didn't argue.

 

[HellHound]

Cyberpunk has been cited to me numerous times as a really good firearms system. I owned a copy of the boxed set years ago when it first came out, but never got a chance to play. Based on recommendations, I've just recently picked up another copy on ebay. Haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Carl

I won't go so far as to say "really good", but it s workable system that is both lethal and yet fun. The problem in that system is armor.

In the real world, Class II body armor (bullet proof vest) provides full protection against 9mm and .45 ACP ammo. As in you can get shot repeatedly and not even realize you've been hit (I met a police officer who was shot twice with a .38 in an incident and only found out afterwards when he checked his vest). Where this breaks down is heroics... everyone layers on the armor and runs around like michelin men with guns...

But yeah, one lucky shot in the head, and most characters go from being cutting edge punks to being spare parts at the body bank.