Making Player Rolls

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Wow, that's a great tecnique. I think you just made me a better GM!

Ken

Here's a thought. Get the players to roll. But never respond with "You see nothing".
Every time you call for a Spot/Listen/Search, give them a description of what they do notice.

As an Example:
DM: Make a spot check
Fighter: I got a 10
DM: [Knowing DC was 15 to see the Giant Spider] You see a desk in the corner of the room, you think it's made of oak.

If you do a good job of describing mundane items, your plays will be thrown off by being paranoid and you as DM can sit back and laugh as the spider bites the heads off of the metagamers busy casting detect magic on that desk.

 

[Nail]

Sounds good... now I just need to find a way to do the same for a Sense Motive opposed roll.

Try this:

Before the NPC even shows up, say: "Everyone roll a d20, out in the open, and tell me the results."

Use these randomly generated numbers as you wish: Sequentially, all at once, etc.

 

[Diggus Rex]

Sounds good... now I just need to find a way to do the same for a Sense Motive opposed roll.

Besides the false spot/listen, I make Sense Motive an active skill. Players need to tell me when their doing Sense Motive, then I roll the opposed roll in secret applying their modifier to one roll (which is written on the index card I mention above). I roll whether or not the NPC is actually lying to them.

They react to existing suspicion they might have, not the roll this way.

 

[vongarr]

Have the players roll on stuff that their characters would be acutely aware if they futzed it up or not. Jump, Climb, DD, Tumble, Ride, Handle Animal, Move Silently all come to mind. If the bear bites your hand, you probably failed the check.

Stuff like Appraise, Hide, Spot, and Search I almost always roll for the players. You might not hear yourself, but you did misjudge the shadows...So they see you. Or that piece of glass you just threw away is actually an emerald.

Stuff that is life and death, like saves (and now NPC combat) is out in the open. Yes, it took me 30 frickin minutes to make Lord Doomhands...And it took the barbarian one charge to make him Lord Doomed. It sucks. Now, with poison, it might be interesting to make it a secret, but that would be way too much work, and cause needless game delays just to have them guessing.

 

[EP]

Ehm, isn't Sense Motive dependant on a Bluff being made? If the PCs tell the truth, no Sense Motive roll needs to be made by the NPC. On the other hand, if the NPC is trying to bluff her way into making the others trusting her, then only one Bluff check is required, made by the NPC. The PCs are then allowed to make a Sense Motive check once, and it shouldn't be too hard to make them roll it without raising their suspicion?

It was done like that originally, but she failed. Now they think they have her completely convinced, but not one of her assistants. To keep with the story, however, I want to make a re-roll for the Sense Motive but not let the PCs know I am. Right now, they think they could tell her the sky in green and she'll believe them.

(I should note that in my campaign world, the sky is not green.)

It's not something crucial and they'll still have to contend with open rolls for the assistant, but if the major NPC is able to convince the PCs that she is unaware, she can bait them in a trap herself. To do that, especially with these players, I need the players to be unsuspecting.

Probably sounds like a lot more fuss and work than it could be, but I like to be prepared for these guys. They have farked up so many of my best laid plans before, it's not funny.

On that note, I'm going to use the "early roll" technique and have everyone make a d20 roll for each character at the start of the game. Once one of those rolls has been used, I'll then ask them to re-roll it all again later on... well after I got what I need. Maybe even before I need it, just to make them think something's up when it's not. Who knows.