D&D 5E Making weapon choice matter

[ro]

In my other thread, What if you had to learn to use weapons?, I presented an idea for requiring characters to level up to get access to better weapons. One objection to this idea is that, ordinarily, any random NPC can wield any weapon, and making 1st level characters only able to use daggers is silly.

What are other ways that we can make weapon choice interesting and substantial?

There are issues with weapons as they are now.
Other than not having proficiency in a weapon, which is easily overcome, why would a character proficient in many want to switch?
Notably, d10 melee weapons are rarely used, although they do have the reach property.
Also, versatile weapons are rarely used, because they aren't really that versatile. (It's difficult to switch back and forth from using a shield.)
Why use a shortbow rather than a longbow?
Why ever use a sling?
Why not use the most damaging crossbow you can get?
etc.

Now, there are power issues with two-weapon fighting. This is fixed by removing the bonus action for the second attack and making it the second half of the main attack.

Here are some other ideas:
d12/2d6 weapons could give -1 attack or -5 speed.
d4 weapons could give +1 attack or +5 speed.
Versatile weapons could have the following rule:

Versatile Weapons

While wielding a versatile weapon and a shield, you may choose to make a two-handed attacked, with your shield hand helping the attack. However, when you do so, you do not gain the shield's benefit to your AC until the start of your next turn.
​

 

[aco175]

I always found that weapon choice was something I decided on when making the character. I have a picture of a guy with 2 daggers, or a londsword and shield. A bastard sword is just a longsword with 2 hands. An axe guy may not pick up the magical longsword we found unless that is the only magic we found in the last few adventures. I tend to stick with the weapon type they started with.

Not getting a lot of weapons at first level would not impact my PCs.

I can see the penalty of -1 to hit with large weapons and +1 with small weapons, sort of like the weapon speed of 1e/2e. Although we mostly ignored that. A flat +1/-1 is simple and easy to incorporate.

 

[5ekyu]

First there are two key cre decisions to be made... Do you want weapon choice down to sub type level to be an impactful mechanical tactical choice... So that odds are most "front line fighters" use the same weapon chosen for its numbers?

Second - Are the rows on the weapons table actual locked in weapons types or are they in a more abstract ways representations of a fighting style?

Ie can a "saber" set of game stats be applied in game to an Elven Moonaxe? Can a greatsword stats be applied to a Dwarven WarAxe?



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[FieserMoep]

As for your Questions regarding the d10 weapons with reach or stuff like the hand crossbow.
Those become the most powerful/versatile weapons in the entire game with their Feats.

If you want to specialize: Get the feat, everything else is just basic education.
Thing is, not every weapon has a feat and then not every weapon has a feat that powerful.

As for clear downgrades like shortbows compared to longbows. Sometimes you don't want your random foes running around in SotA gear. One is simply better than the other. A short bow may be easier to conceal just like a dagger that is also inferior to a sword for most people. A shortbow is also not heavy which is relevant for some races etc.

 

[Thurmas]

I think you already have a system sort of built into the game's weapon table, with Light and Heavy weapons, as well as weapons that don't have either of those properties. If you take those three categories, you could make a modifier to further distinquish them.

I think from the standpoint of making them different, you could do it two ways without creating whole new concepts such as "Speed." As mentioned already, you could add a +1 to hit for Light, +0 for normal, -1 to hit for Heavy.

You could also give it an initiative modifier. Light - +5 Intitative, Normal - None, Heavy -5 Initiative. Doesn't do a ton in the long run, but does give a little more flavorful aspect to them. It's certainly quicker to pull out and swing a dagger then it is a Great sword.

I think the greater problem in differenting weapons used is the lack of a -5/+10 for weapons other then really big ones or ranged weapons. I'm not trying to see that discussion started again. I just know that having those feats only available to certain weapon groups does force people into certain weapons and away from others.

 

[Ganymede81]

I say abstract weapons further: everything is either a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two handed weapon (whether because it is very large or because you're using a weapon in each hand), and they do 1d6, 1d8, and 2d6 respectively.

 

[Charlaquin]

Also, versatile weapons are rarely used, because they aren't really that versatile. (It's difficult to switch back and forth from using a shield.)

This hasn’t been my experience. Versatile weapons used one-handed tend to have the largest damage dice of any one-handed weapons apart from the Rapier, so they’re still some of the best choices if you want to go weapon and shield. What the versatile ability does though is it effectively allows you to wield a two-handed weapon while keeping one hand free. Equipping and unequipping a shield isn’t practical, but for an Eldritch Knight or other gish, a versatile weapon will allow you to use be th hands on the weapon for a d10 when you attack with it, and allow you to hold your weapon one-handed while you use the other to do somatic components and handle your component pouch. They’re basically one-handed d10 weapons that drop down to d8 if you use a shield.

Why use a shortbow rather than a longbow?

Either because you’re a halfling or a gnome, or because you found a magic Shortbow and don’t have a magic longbow.

Why ever use a sling?

Because it’s the only non-loading one-handed ammunition weapon. In other words, the only deficated ranged weapon you can use effectively in one hand while holding a melee weapon in the other. The hand crossbow is ultimately better, especially if you take Crossbow Expert, but it’s a martial weapon where the sling is simple.

Why not use the most damaging crossbow you can get?

If you’re a small creature and therefore can’t use a heavy crossbow, or if you have a magic light crossbow and no magic heavy crossbow, or have Crossbow Expertise and want to shoot your hand crossbow like a glock.

 

[ART!]

I've been thinking for a while now that I'd like weapon proficiency to be a just a little grainier in 5E, with the existing weapons broken down into more categories. Thing is, i don't know what those categories would be.

I like the idea of not interpreting weapons literally - it's very much in keeping with 5E's design sensibilities: "Elves" are a biological people with innate abilities, but also a culture with racial skills. A "barbarian" isn't necessarily an uncivilized brute. You can say your Entangle or Grease spell is caused by ice. Etcetera.

 

[Ganymede81]

This hasn’t been my experience. Versatile weapons used one-handed tend to have the largest damage dice of any one-handed weapons apart from the Rapier, so they’re still some of the best choices if you want to go weapon and shield. What the versatile ability does though is it effectively allows you to wield a two-handed weapon while keeping one hand free. Equipping and unequipping a shield isn’t practical, but for an Eldritch Knight or other gish, a versatile weapon will allow you to use be th hands on the weapon for a d10 when you attack with it, and allow you to hold your weapon one-handed while you use the other to do somatic components and handle your component pouch. They’re basically one-handed d10 weapons that drop down to d8 if you use a shield.

This is not unique to versatile weapons. As clarified in this Crawford tweet, proper two-handed weapons, such as the greatsword or maul, can also be used in this fashion.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford...ww.sageadvice.eu/2017/03/02/2-weapon-casting/

Because it’s the only non-loading one-handed ammunition weapon. In other words, the only deficated ranged weapon you can use effectively in one hand while holding a melee weapon in the other. The hand crossbow is ultimately better, especially if you take Crossbow Expert, but it’s a martial weapon where the sling is simple.

There are several Crawford tweets on point detailing that, while weapons like hand crossbows and slings may make attacks one-handed, they still require two hands to feed ammunition into the weapon. As such, I'd dispute the notion that you could use these weapons effectively with a melee weapon in your other hand.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford...u/2015/08/22/can-you-load-two-hand-crossbows/

Either because you’re a halfling or a gnome, or because you found a magic Shortbow and don’t have a magic longbow.

If you’re a small creature and therefore can’t use a heavy crossbow, or if you have a magic light crossbow and no magic heavy crossbow, or have Crossbow Expertise and want to shoot your hand crossbow like a glock.

Presumably, the OP was interested in reasoning for why someone would choose one over the other when they have a meaningful choice between the two, not when exigent circumstances meant that one wasn't really a choice.

 

[FieserMoep]

Imho the thread mostly boils down to peopne not knowing where weapons are useful.
And that is a dangerous stage to start for homebrews.