Male player + female character: a new twist

[Seonaid]

<snip> I hesitate to allow players to play characters of divergent ethnicity in my modern games.

What does this mean?

When it comes to running female PC's, though, they're pretty much male PC's with female bodies.

Funny, I find that my male PCs are pretty much female PCs with male bodies. There are other things I could say regarding that statement, but let's just leave it at that . . .

 

[Corsair]

Tinner had a nice long post, and as someone who plays numerous characters of both genders, I want to address a couple things. I'm going to snip down his post and number some things for simplicity.

1) First, I have yet to meet a male player who can realistically play a female character. DM's? Sure, but they normally only have to roleplay a single character for a short period of "screentime", while a player must stay in-character for the duration of the game/campaign.

2) For me, it's very jarring to have a female barbarian who mows down opponents in a blind fury, but then giggles and tee-hee's making eyes at any male NPC. Or worse yet, who is afraid of mice and stands on a chair when one appears. I wouldn't let a player of any gender, play a PC of any gender that was just a bunch of stupid stereotypes and disruptive quirks. Sadly, this is what the majority of cross-gender PC's that I encounter are.

3) The second reason I dislike/disallow cross-gender PC's is that I find a lot of the PC's being played are nothing but flimsy masks for the player's misogny. These are the guy who want to play the cold-hard-bitch PC's, or even worse, complete and total tramps.
Granted a lot of these issues come up because many of the male gamers I play with are somewhat socially inept and tend to objectify women. This seeps out when they try to then roleplay a female PC.
Would playing a realistic female character possibly help them come to terms with the opposite sex, and maybe be beneficial to them IRL?
Maybe, but that's not my job. I'm running a game. A diversion. Some light entertainment for a group of friends and acquaintances. I'm not trying to "educate the masses."

4) The final reason, which is for me, the biggest, albeit rarest reason I dislike/disallow C-GPC's is that I am not a therapist, counselor, or avid consumer of deviant pornography. This doesn't happen often, but there are gamers who just want to either explore alternative lifestyles IC as a manner of "working out their issues" IRL.

Snipped for length

1) I assume you have no problem with people playing dwarves and elves, even though it is unlikely a human can play anything other than a "short gruff human" or a "pointy eared human". Secondly, we're talking about adventurers, people who are already segregated from society. 20 strength half orc barbarian women wouldn't act like a "normal" woman most likely. Whether the 24 Wis cleric is male or female, or played by a male or female is secondary to the fact that you're asking a normal 10 to 12 Wis human player to play a 24 wis character! Gender should be a cinch next to that!

2) A player whose characters have disruptive traits will usually be disruptive regardless of the character's gender I've found. The disruptions are just different and new, so they are more noticable.

3) Would you have a problem if a male player played a jaded veteran soldier, pious cleric, or slimy bard? No? Then why is it bad if someone plays equally stereotypical female characters? Most people tend to overlook the fact that most same-gendered characters are stereotypes as well. This is hardly a reasonable argument.

4) Like # 2 and # 3, this has more to do with the players than the characters. In our group we have had one player who refused to "fade to black" early enough for my liking, and this was with male characters. We've had another character (admitedly in an evil campaign) who decided he was into sexual sadism. Does the gender of the character being male or female make a difference?

 

[Falkus]

I personally dissallow cross gender PCs in my Face-to-Face games, simply due to the visual dissonance factor.

Do you forbid people who are taller than five feet from playing Dwarves and Halflings?

 

[Seonaid]

I have never had a problem with cross-gender characters, though the "visual dissonance" (as it has been called) has often caused amusing moments. However, I wanted to address one comment:

3) Would you have a problem if a male player played a jaded veteran soldier, pious cleric, or slimy bard? No? Then why is it bad if someone plays equally stereotypical female characters? Most people tend to overlook the fact that most same-gendered characters are stereotypes as well.

The difference here is that both men and women can be jaded veteran soldiers, pious clerics, and slimy bards.

 

[fusangite]

Well, looks like this thread has got going without me. While I appreciate the TB paraphrase, my actual quote began with, "If one of my players is thinking about my game the next time they reach below the waist..."

As usual, there is a bunch of people who have had a different gaming experience than TB, Tinner (nice to meet you -- and great points so far!) and I have had and have not encountered problems with men wanting to play female characters. I imagine this is a combination of better luck and different gaming styles.

Some people, like Corsair, think that we who have had enough bad experiences to ban certain types of characters are making this choice on some kind of ideological basis. This is simply not the case. We are just doing good risk management. We don't oppose cross-gender play in principle -- we just aren't interested in letting people come up with characters concepts that are highly likely, based on past experience, to detract from our game. If I had an unbroken record of every person who wanted to play a halfling in my campaign detracting from everyone's fun and suspension of disbelief, I'd ban halflings too/instead. It's just that simple.

That's why I don't prohibit women from playing male characters -- no bad track record in my games.

 

[fusangite]

changelings? warforged? artificers? males playing females playing males playing females? emotional baggage-laden character backgrounds and confused sexuality seeping into gaming?

by zeus' beard, have treatises on method acting and genderless societies replaced our dice bags?

has quiche replaced greasy pizza?

mineral water instead of bad soda or cheap beer?

soft mood lighting and new age classical music instead of a fluorescent basement lamp and your neighbor's ungodly heavy metal?

somewhere there's a dwarf fighter weeping, and a halfling rogue that's lost his will to Pick Pockets, and an elf wizard that no longer feels like casting magic missile. we used to have dual-classed humans, and now we have dual-gendered player characters.

that sound you hear is EGG vomiting.

Nice rant! I laughed until I stopped.

 

[Romnipotent]

Do you forbid people who are taller than five feet from playing Dwarves and Halflings?

I just take away their seat... so its proportionate when they sit on the floor

 

[Teflon Billy]

...Some people, like Corsair, think that we who have had enough bad experiences to ban certain types of characters are making this choice on some kind of ideological basis. This is simply not the case. We are just doing good risk management. We don't oppose cross-gender play in principle -- we just aren't interested in letting people come up with characters concepts that are highly likely, based on past experience, to detract from our game. If I had an unbroken record of every person who wanted to play a halfling in my campaign detracting from everyone's fun and suspension of disbelief, I'd ban halflings too/instead. It's just that simple.

It really is just that simple.

PC option (X) has wrecked games for me

I am disallowing (X) as a PC option.

Slot in whatever is appropriate as the X Factor, and you have my plan.

That's why I don't prohibit women from playing male characters -- no bad track record in my games.[/QUOTE]

 

[Crothian]

1) I assume you have no problem with people playing dwarves and elves, even though it is unlikely a human can play anything other than a "short gruff human" or a "pointy eared human".

There is a differnce between playing a fictional race wrong then playing something everyone knows and experiences wrong. It is harder to suspend reality when you are familar with said reality.

 

[Corsair]

I would contend that males and female adventurers probably have many more things in common than adventurers of either gender do with normal folks of the same gender, but that is a seperate issue.

But in response to Crothian: So what? So what if your buddy Frank couldn't play a female "correctly"? (I'm choosing not to define "correctly". You can choose whatever definition best fits your concept) How does that detract from your gameplay any more than if Frank wanted to play an effeminate dwarf, or a black woman with 20th century morality in a CoC game set in the Confederacy? Personally I find the "correctness" argument to be the weakest of all. Not just because its silly, but simply because I see no reason why a person can have any temperment or personality they want, regardless of gender.

I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a single statement or action which couldn't be attributed "realistically" to a character of either gender. To claim otherwise would be ludicrous.

-------

Back to the people who say their rules are based on past track record, that's fine, do what you will. But I suspect that the problems are more with the specific players. Banning the symptoms won't remove the cause.