barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Note that I don't insist that everyone around me be just as liberal as I.S'mon said:Spoken like a true liberal.
Makes me stand out some, in this town...
male playing female PC
- Thread starter lokiqc
- Start date
Makes me stand out some, in this town...
Arnwyn
First Post
Ah... thanks for the explanation. I see what you are referring to now (okay, you're no longer trolling!).S'mon said:
I didn't mean that Canadians are male chauvinist pigs - quite the opposite. As demonstrated by what Fusangite said about Vancouver's many drag queens etcetera, most Canadians pride themselves on their liberalism, perhaps to the point of political correctness. it's more my perception that there's an insecurity about what constitutes acceptable heterosexual-male behaviour, and the limits of that behaviour seem more narrowly defined than in other, perhaps in some ways less liberal or 'gender aware' countries. Traditionally, minorities such as gay men have tended to be stereotyped into pigeonholes of expected (and thus acceptable) behaviour - British television from the 1970s exemplifies this (oh shut that door!).
OK, enough trolling (if you think I'm trolling - I think this is kinda interesting...)
Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.
P.S. No, barsoomcore, you're actually on my left. [stops, looks around]. Oh wait, I'm facing south. You're correct - you *are* on my right!
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
That's us Canadians. Confuse the enemy by doing exactly what we said we would.arnwyn said:No, barsoomcore, you're actually on my left. [stops, looks around]. Oh wait, I'm facing south. You're correct - you *are* on my right!
"Hello, Germans? We're coming up Vimy Ridge on Easter, is that okay? Right, then, we'll see you there. Bye now!"
Never underestimate the human ability to underestimate.
Brown Jenkin
First Post
As sommeone who is currently playing accross gender let me put in my 2 copper on how I ended up playing this character. This is certainly not the only reason as to why someone might choose to play accross genders and might not even be typical for that matter. Its just how I ended up doing it.
Gender is one of the last things I end up deciding on. I don't think hey I want to play a female, how can I do that. First I think of what broad type do I want Fighter, Spellcaster, skill based, or some combination thereof as well as what race do I want it to be (This includes racial stereotypes and whether I want to play into or against them). Having a broad idea of what I want I then look at Classes (and yes even thinking ahead to prestige classes) to see which one best fits the architype I am after. I then asign stats, feats and skills (There is some min/maxing, but not munchkining, since I don't want to try playing a wizard with a 12 Int and Power Attack). It is only at this point that I think ok, where did this person come from and what made them the character type I want to play. It is here that I finally decide on gender. At this point I look at the big picture and start thinking what type of person would be like this, what background did they come from, what personality type are they, and then whether I think a male or female would be more suited to the mental image I come up with. More often it is male since being one I tend to gravitate that way, but if the image I get doesn't seem male to me I will go female.
Gender is one of the last things I end up deciding on. I don't think hey I want to play a female, how can I do that. First I think of what broad type do I want Fighter, Spellcaster, skill based, or some combination thereof as well as what race do I want it to be (This includes racial stereotypes and whether I want to play into or against them). Having a broad idea of what I want I then look at Classes (and yes even thinking ahead to prestige classes) to see which one best fits the architype I am after. I then asign stats, feats and skills (There is some min/maxing, but not munchkining, since I don't want to try playing a wizard with a 12 Int and Power Attack). It is only at this point that I think ok, where did this person come from and what made them the character type I want to play. It is here that I finally decide on gender. At this point I look at the big picture and start thinking what type of person would be like this, what background did they come from, what personality type are they, and then whether I think a male or female would be more suited to the mental image I come up with. More often it is male since being one I tend to gravitate that way, but if the image I get doesn't seem male to me I will go female.
everchanging02
First Post
Well, I read through the whole bit (it's break week, I'm bored, and it was interesting discussion) and I thought I might as well add my two cents.
I have tried my hand at the cross-gender PC three times.
First was in my second local game. I played a female ex-noble Bard on the run from an engagement arganged by her family. My DM helped me a lot in the background of the character. I didn't have any specific plans for the character (other than the bit of background that had been established) and, as I do with most of my characters, I developed her through the time of gameplay. She was a fun character, but I had a hard time with the whole charisma part (I, myself, not being a very charismatic person, IRL, and having difficulty at another player who liked to take things into his own hands when it came to diplomatic situations). Eventually, it came to the point that her mind-set (exploration) conflicted with that of the party, and I had to change characters.
No problem with gender, just the eventual development of the character.
My second was/is an LG Grey Elven Rogue/Mage that I haven't quite developed, yet (having been in only a few modules over the time I have had her, and not being too interested in Living modules, as of late).
Lastly, I played a fun concept: the Halfling Tamer of Beasts / walking zoo. Sadly, I had to drop this one due to the concept not fitting the game (seems a recurring problem... :-\ ).
Anyhow, in all these, I based the personality I developed for the character off of some aspect of my own, taking that aspect to further lengths than I, myself, would do IRL.
...I guess what I am trying to say is what many others have:
It doesn't matter the gender, race, calss, background, or whatnot the player plays. More, it is IF the player can adequately play the character for the game and for themselves.
We have to remember, Role-Playing is a way to escape from reality. We try different things in order to escape, so we can see what it would be like to be the big, brave knight that killed the nasty dragon; or the sorcerer/ess that was able to wipe out an entire army with but a geasture and a few simple words.
Sure, many concepts don't fit the social 'norm' (if there is one), but that's what makes an adventurer. (S)he is not your average commoner that just suddenly decides to go out and try something new. They are exception beings in their world, and have the right to be as different as a player would like them to be.
And, final two notes:
This is not to say that a player should be accepted, no matter what they play. Some players are troublesome and should be guided towards bieng less so or flatly kicked out.
And, again, sorry about the babbling... I sometimes just get going and can't find a place to stop. v.v
I have tried my hand at the cross-gender PC three times.
First was in my second local game. I played a female ex-noble Bard on the run from an engagement arganged by her family. My DM helped me a lot in the background of the character. I didn't have any specific plans for the character (other than the bit of background that had been established) and, as I do with most of my characters, I developed her through the time of gameplay. She was a fun character, but I had a hard time with the whole charisma part (I, myself, not being a very charismatic person, IRL, and having difficulty at another player who liked to take things into his own hands when it came to diplomatic situations). Eventually, it came to the point that her mind-set (exploration) conflicted with that of the party, and I had to change characters.
No problem with gender, just the eventual development of the character.
My second was/is an LG Grey Elven Rogue/Mage that I haven't quite developed, yet (having been in only a few modules over the time I have had her, and not being too interested in Living modules, as of late).
Lastly, I played a fun concept: the Halfling Tamer of Beasts / walking zoo. Sadly, I had to drop this one due to the concept not fitting the game (seems a recurring problem... :-\ ).
Anyhow, in all these, I based the personality I developed for the character off of some aspect of my own, taking that aspect to further lengths than I, myself, would do IRL.
...I guess what I am trying to say is what many others have:
It doesn't matter the gender, race, calss, background, or whatnot the player plays. More, it is IF the player can adequately play the character for the game and for themselves.
We have to remember, Role-Playing is a way to escape from reality. We try different things in order to escape, so we can see what it would be like to be the big, brave knight that killed the nasty dragon; or the sorcerer/ess that was able to wipe out an entire army with but a geasture and a few simple words.
Sure, many concepts don't fit the social 'norm' (if there is one), but that's what makes an adventurer. (S)he is not your average commoner that just suddenly decides to go out and try something new. They are exception beings in their world, and have the right to be as different as a player would like them to be.
And, final two notes:
This is not to say that a player should be accepted, no matter what they play. Some players are troublesome and should be guided towards bieng less so or flatly kicked out.
And, again, sorry about the babbling... I sometimes just get going and can't find a place to stop. v.v
I won't tread again over ground already covered. So, those posters re-stating arguments made by others (such as Zad who I don't think should be quite so proud of his incomprehension as he seems to be) hoping for a response will be out of luck.
In response to your question Al regarding reincarnation and involuntary polymorphing of characters, I must say that in 22 years of gaming, I have never seen a PC be reincarnated. So it's never come up.
As for involuntary polymorphing, I'd always taken it that the person's soul was placed in a wholly alien body and the experience was a fully alienated one. I suppose in a non-European myth system where the mind-body dichotemy is not so sharp, polymorphing could have interesting long-term effects but D&D appears to me to be designed based on a highly dichotemous neoplatonist worldview. Also remember: we are talking about gender -- a polymorph spell can only change the target's sex not his/her gender.
In response to your question Al regarding reincarnation and involuntary polymorphing of characters, I must say that in 22 years of gaming, I have never seen a PC be reincarnated. So it's never come up.
As for involuntary polymorphing, I'd always taken it that the person's soul was placed in a wholly alien body and the experience was a fully alienated one. I suppose in a non-European myth system where the mind-body dichotemy is not so sharp, polymorphing could have interesting long-term effects but D&D appears to me to be designed based on a highly dichotemous neoplatonist worldview. Also remember: we are talking about gender -- a polymorph spell can only change the target's sex not his/her gender.
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Sixchan
First Post
Zad said:
No offence Zad, but have you actually read the actual thread? Because this isn't a new question. The answer was as follows:
Women exist. How they would act in a given situation can be determined using real life, especially by any women sitting at the table. Wizards and Elves don't. How they would act in a given situation cannot be determined using real life, and there are no Wizards or Elves sitting at the gaming table who could take offence.
----
Quick sidetrack to go WAY back to page 3--remember that?
I have many gay friends, and more than a few bisexual friends too. And many of them (though not all) are much more feminine that your average guy. But this can also be affected by just what the 'average guy' in my area is, i.e. a 3 foot tall walking lump of violent testosterone with Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Glaswegian Broken Bottle. Some are kinda butch, macho guys, but lots of them only really have their femininity surpassed by my own on certain days (which was why I asked about transgenders, and I think I need to see someone about it a some point...), and most of the women.
I have an unusual group of friends, and this changes my view on whether you can play stereotypes. I know men who are amazing with computers (even by my own ego inflated standards), men as thick as a planet, gay men, straight men, bisexual men, immature men, mature men, borderline men, down-to-earth men, emotional men, completely unemotional men, etc. I don't have as many female friends, but some are stupid, some are very intelligent, some fit the definition of the word 'slut', one is more or less asexual, some are straight, some are bi, some are lesbians, some are violent and some are pacifistic.
So as you can see, no matter who I'm roleplaying, if I was around a table with all of my friends, no matter WHAT I played, if I RPed badly, I'd offend someone. Even if I'm playing a complete stereotype, some around that table probably wouldn't complain I'm playing a lesbian dominatrix, they'd complain I'm playing it wrong. So my solution would be to play what I want, and if I offend someone, who cares? I'll explain it to them afterwards that I'm not a good Roleplayer.
----
Oh, and I still haven't had my question about playing Female Elves answered yet. Or at least, I didn't see it...
seasong
First Post
Humor mode on, please.
I let anyone play a female in my campaigns. I mean, ANYONE. I've got some women in my group, and they've got baseball bats, so if the performance is offensive, a little of what I like to call negative reinforcement occurs. Usually while I'm making a bathroom run, so I've got plausible deniability.
Sometimes I go to the bathroom a bit early, just in case. BUT, I do allow them to try. I mean, everyone should get a chance, right?
But anyway, that doesn't answer your question. This does:
Female elves are impossible to roleplay. Ever since Lord of the Rings, none of my players can really compare, so I'd rather they just gave up now.
I am also not allowing anyone to play an elven archer, although elven great leaders and elven captains who get shot by an orc are okay. But no one can match Legolas. Don't argue with me on this.
Well, let me tell you MY answer.Sixchan said:
I let anyone play a female in my campaigns. I mean, ANYONE. I've got some women in my group, and they've got baseball bats, so if the performance is offensive, a little of what I like to call negative reinforcement occurs. Usually while I'm making a bathroom run, so I've got plausible deniability.
Sometimes I go to the bathroom a bit early, just in case. BUT, I do allow them to try. I mean, everyone should get a chance, right?
But anyway, that doesn't answer your question. This does:
Female elves are impossible to roleplay. Ever since Lord of the Rings, none of my players can really compare, so I'd rather they just gave up now.
I am also not allowing anyone to play an elven archer, although elven great leaders and elven captains who get shot by an orc are okay. But no one can match Legolas. Don't argue with me on this.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
What's the ECL on those?seasong said:
seasong said:
Wow! That's an interesting perspective. I discovered D&D about 2 years after I discovered LOTR as a child. Yet, even then, based on their respective descriptions, I had two completely different categories for elves: D&D elves and Tolkien elves. I never saw D&D elves as equivalents for Tolkien elves for some reason and I think these separate mental categories have spared me much anguish as I'm very offended by people butchering and misinterpreting Tolkien (for instance I'm furious at Jackson's interpretation of the Two Towers, especially in light of his near-flawless interpretation of Fellowship).
I mean, if one were to cast female D&D elves for a movie (as opposed to Tolkien elves), one would choose people like Jennifer Love Hewitt and Rachael Leigh Cook rather than Cate Blanchett.
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