male playing female PC

[LazarusLong42]

Billy:

Fusangite sez (about romance in RP):
More importantly, by engaging in quasi-masturbatory role playing, you're spoiling the game for your fellow players. Unless of course your fellow players don't mind or are right in there with you in which case I suggest that therapy may be a better use of your weekly gaming time.

Yes, this particular line I found very polite.

Fusangite intimated that, effectively, it was impossible for a male to play a female well, while all the time being possible for a female to play a male well. Unlike those who would ban all cross-gender roles, he has created a double standard, an animal which I very much dislike.

Not, of course, that I would play in a game where the DM had banned cross-gender roles.

Also... exactly which part of my post screamed anything specifically about open-mindedness? Just curious.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Billy:



Yes, this particular line I found very polite.

Fusangite intimated that, effectively, it was impossible for a male to play a female well, while all the time being possible for a female to play a male well. Unlike those who would ban all cross-gender roles, he has created a double standard, an animal which I very much dislike.

Not, of course, that I would play in a game where the DM had banned cross-gender roles.

Well, Fusangite has answered these points above already. I'll let them defend themselves.

Also... exactly which part of my post screamed anything specifically about open-mindedness? Just curious.

Specifically? No part.

Generally? The entire thing.

 

[Tom Cashel]

In this society [...]

"This" society? You mean Canada? a.k.a. America Junior?

 

[Teflon Billy]

"This" society? You mean Canada? a.k.a. America Junior?

ha! a Canada dig

Sweet

 

[thud13x]

What we need to keep in mind is that this thread was started to help lokiqc in deciding if he should allow his player to play a female bard with high charisma. Since lokiqc has not answered my previous posts requesting more info, we can only go on certain general ideas.

Now, while fusangite and I disagree on the general topic of allowing or disallowing "bending" in campaigns, I believe we are trying to understand why the issue in this thread (male playing female bard with 18 chr) would work or not.

fusangite and teflon billy, if you could look at my previous post to this one and inform me why you believe a male (whom we know nothing about, but try to present me with different scenarios) would work or not. We'll take it from there.

nk

 

[fusangite]

More importantly, by engaging in quasi-masturbatory role playing, you're spoiling the game for your fellow players.

Is there really any other kind of role-playing? Think about it.

I have thought about it. I tried meditating on this as zen koan. I tried thinking about it on a hyper-metaphorical level. Then I decided to eat an omelette but that didn't help either. Eventually, I decided that your statement was based on a false equivalency between sexual fulfillment and other types of fulfillment.

As to your question about what I meant by "society," I mean Western Society ie. civilizations based on post-reformation European society -- North America, Europe, Oceana.

And now back to Lazarus's posts...

Fusangite intimated that, effectively, it was impossible for a male to play a female well, while all the time being possible for a female to play a male well. Unlike those who would ban all cross-gender roles, he has created a double standard, an animal which I very much dislike.

Well, replace the word "impossible" with "rare," and you're getting close. Tell me, though, are you upset about God's unfair double standard in not giving you a vagina? Or society's double standard in not letting you use women's washrooms or join your local women's soccer league? Just to remind you, 1+3=4 and 2+2=4 but that doesn not mean that adding 3 to 1 is identical to adding 2 to 2.

As for Teflon Billy's defence of my politeness, yes, I did start this thread out quite politely but I see little point, Lazarus, in meeting your insulting posts with good-natured cheer.

My apologies to the originator of this thread for side-tracking the debate. To provide an additional response to my categorical "NO" to your question, I would suggest that you run my 6 rules by your player and see how he reacts. This may clarify his motivations for seeking to play this character.

 

[Drunken Master]

I currently play a female rogue with a ton of ranks in Diplomacy, Bluff, Disguise, and the sneaky skills. Its a Forgotten Realms campaign, so I had her backstory include a two-year stint in Skullport where she was a spy and diplomat (she's a Harper Scout), and at the time she was getting it on with her female half-medusa drug dealer (she's a frequent user of kammarth - see Lords of Darkness). She's a cool character that I have a lot of fun playing - basically good (CG), but attracted to the dark side after being so immersed in it in Skullport. Sexuality hasn't come up, but she is straight; the thing with the half-medusa was college-type experimentation.
I play her just as I would a comparable male, except if I have to flirt with a guard to sneak my companions past him while he's distrated, I just tell the DM "I'm gonna flirt with the guard to distract him. My Bluff check is 35. I'm not gonna role-play it because that would be weird."
No problem.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Ok...back to work for me.

I'll be back tonight.

 

[Oni]

First off let me state very simply that I can't really see the problem with a male player playing a female character, nor the reverse of that situation.

In answer to the original poster. Will your player be able to pull it off? Well you won't know until he tries, I would suggest being open-minded and at least give him a chance before you discount his character. As for problems reconciling the physical appearance of your player with his character, well quite frankly that is your problem, not his (though one that is understandable, but really it is something that you should try to look past).

I have seen players of both genders, both play characters of the opposite gender well and poorly, some people are better at roleplaying than others, such is life.

As for the 18 charisma being a warning flag or what have you there are some things to consider. First off is a highly charismatic female character any less reasonable than a male one? Secondly is his character's charisma 18 because he is playing a woman or because he's playing a bard (whose primary stat is chr, so placing your best roll there logically follows).

To honest the most "offensive" female characters I have encountered have been played by women. I certainly don't mean to say that this is the nature of things in general, but it has most definately been my personal experience.

 

[LazarusLong42]

Congratulations on becoming "one of the girls." This clearly demonstrates that you, yourself, have no gender issues whatsoever.

I never claimed I didn't.

In addition, I would suggest that stereotypes and archetypes are as, or more, important in fashioning fictional characters than evidence from experience... In virtually all literary genres, men are depicted as "simpler" than women. They are depicted as being a far less complex in their motivations and behaviour. It logically follows that it is easier for someone more complex to play someone less complex than it is for someone less complex to play someone more complex.

Might I ask what, exactly, literature you're getting this from? If an author is attempting to write a character-driven story, his male characters had best damn well have as complex motivations as his female characters, or the story won't sell. In stories that aren't character-driven, of course, this doesn't matter.

Is it a double standard to say men are taller than women? Is it a double standard to say men are stronger than women? No. It's just obvious. Have I ever seen a man screw up playing a woman in an RPG? Yes -- many times. Have I ever seen a woman screw up playing a man in an RPG? No -- never. Observing actual differences is not a "double standard."

Well, actually, the height and strength differences are not obvious, especially if you can pick and choose your sample. However, given a sufficiently large and random sample, and good statistical analysis, the differences become clear, yes.

What's the (approximate) sample size you have in your experience for men playing women?

Also, that word "insipid," I do not think it means what you think it means.

Thanks, Inigo, but (from Merriam-Webster Online):

insipid
2 : lacking in qualities that interest, stimulate, or challenge

Synonyms including dull, bland, banal, jejune etc.: lacking substance. Not complex. As you apparently think men are.

And before you all get your panties in a bunch about how what I'm saying isn't true in all cases, of course it's not. But what we're discussing here are generalities.

Yes, I know. But are they generalities backed up by sufficient evidence?

Well, replace the word "impossible" with "rare," and you're getting close.

That works for me. But if you had one of those rare males in your game, you still would not allow him to play a female?

Tell me, though, are you upset about God's unfair double standard in not giving you a vagina? Or society's double standard in not letting you use women's washrooms or join your local women's soccer league?

Well, I have no idea about your God, but I'm just fine with my god, and don't consider that a double standard. Personally, I'm quite happy with my sexual equipment.

As to society, neither of those you've mentioned are double standards. I'm perfectly happy using the men's restroom, and if I played soccer, I'm sure there's a men's league around. Actually, the IM league here is most likely co-ed.[/b][/quote]

I did start this thread out quite politely...

We'll just have to agree to disagree about that.