male playing female PC

[LazarusLong42]

fusangite:

Um. Gender issues much?

As a straight male who has been accepted into two different groups as "one of the girls," I dare say I can play a female character without too much difficulty. It's called role-playing.

As a writer, I can write female characters--and my one sale was a short story with a female protagonist. And believe me, I'm not using the Melvin Udall "Think of a man and take away reason and accountability" method.

One of my characters is a female bard with specific focus in Diplomacy and Disguise. She likes her make-up, and tries to look a little bit different each day. Is she a bit of a tomboy? Yes. She spent a good portion of her childhood on the road with her father, a trader, and so knows how to shoot a bow and can deal with getting her hands dirty (more than I can, at least ) But she's still a woman. Playing out getting hit on by a dwarf NPC was fun.

This thread, however, seems to be about the question of male players playing female characters. Obviously, there's no problem with female players playing male characters.

Ah, yes, right, because males are completely one-dimensional, and females can understand them easily and without thought. Hogwash. Here in the real world, we call that a double standard. You're implying that either females are inherently more intelligent, or males are inherently insipid. Which is it? Please, enlighten us.

 

[Ashwyn]

I would just like to say that males playing females and vice versa can be done with no problem whatsoever. The reason for that is because every person is different, regardless of gender. Sure, there are things atrributed to males and females, but many times I have seen people who break those molds. I AM one of those people. Most people think I am female, although I am not. I don't consciously do anything to make them think that, but something about the way I speak and act causes them to assume I am female. Everyone is different, everyone is the same. Just something to think about.

 

[S'mon]

BTW on Neverwinter Nights I tend to play mostly female Fighter/Barbarian types (fully dressed, and clad in functional full plate armour, soon as I can afford it), while my wife tends to play mostly male Fighter/Ranger types, usually fashionably dressed in green studded leather or somesuch that she's spent ages designing...
I guess some gender stereotypes do apply.

 

[thud13x]

fusangite,

In re-reading your first post, I can agree with you that males about to RP female PC's should heed your advice. Another thing we can agree on is that yes, the PC in question will need to be played with a great deal of talent and skill.

Now, if I was the DM (which I admit I have never been), I'd talk to the guy first to see why he wishes to play this role in the game. Since we have no idea what type of game it is (ie: serious, goofy, laid back, etc), who else in playing and what, and how good the individual in question is, we cannot specifically answer and/or provide advice to lokiqc in regards to his unique situation. As a rule, all the DM's I have ever RP'd with let us, the players, know what guidelines to follow. None have ever had a problem with "bending." In regards to what we do know, what specific difficulties do you see in either RPing and/or DMing this character?

 

[Teflon Billy]

I've seen gender-bending done well, just not often. In theory, I've got no problem with it. In practice, though, I've got a strict no-bending rule in my game.

Why did I enact said rule? I think it was after the 8th leather-clad, arrogant, lesbian, misanthropic drow ranger/dominatrix appeared in my game. Some variation on that theme would describe 90% of all the bending I've ever seen.

Of the people I've gamed with in the last ~12 years since implementing the rule, most everyone (two exceptions, IRRC) has fallen into two categories: the purile dominatrix players, and those who have no interest in bending.

Anymore, I could probably be talked into allowing it if someone had interest in it and showed me it was necessary for the concept, but no one has tried.

Well, I don't need to post now. Mercule has basically had an identical experince to mine in the DM/GM's chair.

Fusangite and I have historically agreed on theis topic. Nothing he has said above does anything to change that (despite being from a Player's perspective)

 

[Teflon Billy]

fusangite:

Um. Gender issues much?

As a straight male who has been accepted into two different groups as "one of the girls," I dare say I can play a female character without too much difficulty. It's called role-playing.

As a writer, I can write female characters--and my one sale was a short story with a female protagonist. And believe me, I'm not using the Melvin Udall "Think of a man and take away reason and accountability" method.

One of my characters is a female bard with specific focus in Diplomacy and Disguise. She likes her make-up, and tries to look a little bit different each day. Is she a bit of a tomboy? Yes. She spent a good portion of her childhood on the road with her father, a trader, and so knows how to shoot a bow and can deal with getting her hands dirty (more than I can, at least ) But she's still a woman. Playing out getting hit on by a dwarf NPC was fun.



Ah, yes, right, because males are completely one-dimensional, and females can understand them easily and without thought. Hogwash. Here in the real world, we call that a double standard. You're implying that either females are inherently more intelligent, or males are inherently insipid. Which is it? Please, enlighten us.

heh, in every cross gender thread someone needs to step up to the plate and shriek "I'M OPEN MINDED ...EVERYONE! I AM AN OPEN MINDED PERSON"

Today that person was LazarusLong 42 Congrtulations Laz.

Fusangite was asked for his opinion.

He gave it politely.

Try and do the same when it's your turn...it's kind of an unwritten rule around here.

Edit: Misspelled Plate...man I need to work on my typing

 

[Cedric]

I've never had a problem with it. Some of the people I've played with have, but I never have.

I've seen it done often and well. I've rarely seen it done poorly. Most of the people who are comfortable playing cross-gender characters are good at it.

Cedric

 

[Tom Cashel]

More importantly, by engaging in quasi-masturbatory role playing, you're spoiling the game for your fellow players.

Is there really any other kind of role-playing? Think about it.

 

[fusangite]

fusangite:

Um. Gender issues much?

As a straight male who has been accepted into two different groups as "one of the girls,"

Congratulations on becoming "one of the girls." This clearly demonstrates that you, yourself, have no gender issues whatsoever.

One of my characters is a female bard with specific focus in Diplomacy and Disguise. She likes her make-up, and tries to look a little bit different each day. Is she a bit of a tomboy? Yes. She spent a good portion of her childhood on the road with her father, a trader, and so knows how to shoot a bow and can deal with getting her hands dirty (more than I can, at least ) But she's still a woman. Playing out getting hit on by a dwarf NPC was fun.

Well, whatever mows your lawn.

Ah, yes, right, because males are completely one-dimensional, and females can understand them easily and without thought. Hogwash. Here in the real world, we call that a double standard. You're implying that either females are inherently more intelligent, or males are inherently insipid. Which is it? Please, enlighten us.

In this society, women are socialized and trained from a very young age to understand and speculate about other people's motivations and intentions. It may be that this reflects a biological advantage or it may simply be a fuction of socialized gender. Regardless, a comparison of periodicals, self-help manuals and other literature aimed at single-gender audiences bears this out. Furthermore, the study of human biology has shown us that women's motivations are more complex and multi-faceted than men's. However, if this isn't obvious, there's nothing I can say here to persuade you of the reality that is staring you in the face every day.

In addition, I would suggest that stereotypes and archetypes are as, or more, important in fashioning fictional characters than evidence from experience. Thus, even though real-world experience supports my claim, what really matters in designing and playing characters in a well-defined genre like fantasy is what archetypes and stereotypes the character is based on. In virtually all literary genres, men are depicted as "simpler" than women. They are depicted as being a far less complex in their motivations and behaviour. It logically follows that it is easier for someone more complex to play someone less complex than it is for someone less complex to play someone more complex.

Is it a double standard to say men are taller than women? Is it a double standard to say men are stronger than women? No. It's just obvious. Have I ever seen a man screw up playing a woman in an RPG? Yes -- many times. Have I ever seen a woman screw up playing a man in an RPG? No -- never. Observing actual differences is not a "double standard."

The absurd goose-gander logic I knew would be trotted out here is just what I would expect from a man who is proud to be considered "one of the girls."

Also, that word "insipid," I do not think it means what you think it means.

And before you all get your panties in a bunch about how what I'm saying isn't true in all cases, of course it's not. But what we're discussing here are generalities.

 

[Psion]

1. The Race Analogy: The idea of a human being playing an elf or dwarf being analogous to a male playing a female is absurd. That's because there is no living model of a fully 3-dimensional dwarf or elf character. Perhaps if there really were elves and dwarves in the world, people's reactions to humans playing them might be similar to the general reaction to men playing women ie. "Oh my God, this guy doesn't have a clue about real elves. The elves I know aren't anything like that. I don't think he has the slightest clue about elven motivation and thought patterns."

I don't really buy that. Most players don't strive to play typical members of their own gender, so I am not disinclined to allow them to play atypical members of opposite genders.

When I was a teenager, I went through a stage where I played female PCs for a while, seeking something different. Having been fairly new to RPGs then, I don't imagine that my role-playing was anything special. She was an enterprising and headstrong heroine.

But years later, I met (and dated) a girl when I was in the navy who fit the characteristics that I had outlined for the character that I had made years earlier.

IME, there is very little that is especially elusive about playing members of the opposite sex.