Marilith´s CR

[Grazzt]

Somewhere (either here or on his own boards), Monte Cook mentioned that he thought the CRs for all the demons and devils were too high.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

Somewhere (either here or on his own boards), Monte Cook mentioned that he thought the CRs for all the demons and devils were too high.

And the CR for the celestials are to low...

 

[Celebrim]

This is to induce you to go out and hunt demons, not celestials.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

This is to induce you to go out and hunt demons, not celestials.

True, I think that mariliths are the best way to a high level parry gains xp, uses planar biding whitout using a magic circle vs evil...

 

[S'mon]

The demon CRs are mostly far too high, just as the dragons are too low. The Devils seem spot-on though. U-K's system in Asgard gives excellent results although judging what abilities are significant enough to boost a CR is a bit of a fine trick.

 

[Grazzt]

The demon CRs are mostly far too high, just as the dragons are too low.

It has been stated (by Skip Williams himself, I do believe) that they intentionally set the dragon CR's too low on purpose. They wanted dragons to be the biggest, baddest dudes on the block, so they set the CRs low to reflect this.

Not sure I wouldve done it that way...but oh well....

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

This is to induce you to go out and hunt demons, not celestials.

That's one of things that bothers me. Surely that sort of decision should be left up to the DM and the CR system used soley to judge how powerful something is. What happens if you want to run an evil celestial hunting campaign? Punish the players with less XP for not playing "properly".

Although I think the fixed CR system (or anything like it) runs into problems at higher levels, a monsters 'challenge' to a party surely depends on the composition of the party and their weapons, spells, etc as much as any abilities the creature might have.

 

[Celebrim]

Inconsequential: I'm not trying to justify it, I'm just telling you why it was done. I don't like it either, because it falsely gives the impression to the novice gamer that Demons are the biggest bad boys in the multi-verse because "heh, look at their CR." followed shortly be "I wanna play a demon worshipper!"

*sigh* 'Ok, here goes the speach again. Sure, you can play a demon worshipper, but are you really sure you want to do that? Not only will you potentially make some of your friends uncomfortable if you actually play well, but you will definately make some of your character's friends uncomfortable, and I think you will find once you start playing that it is not nearly as ceewwwl and romantic as you seem to think it will be. Not only that but the tendenacy is for new players that play evil or chaotic is to be of the Annoying-Evil alignment, so I expect you to attempt the role with a certain degree of maturity... etc.'

I get really sick of that speech. And, it also screws up the game balance. Nothing like making my job as DM more frustrating. Thanks Monte.

I only hope his Book of Vile Darkness doesn't make the situation worse.