Mark & Shift

[Aulirophile]

An ally could not accept the majestic word power simply by being unwilling.

Personally I would say he has to either accept or reject the entire power, but there's no rule that actually states that that is the case AFAIK.

Ahhh, you meant unwilling to spend the surge, thus completely wasting his allies power. Yeah, that'd work. This table is sounding more and more like a bunch of jerks, but hey.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The terms ally and allies "both assume willing targets." PHB 57, emphasis mine.

If you are unwilling to suffer the effect of a companion's power that targets allies, you do not suffer that effect, because--effectively--you aren't an ally for the brief instant that power targets you.

Changing this is a perfectly valid house rule--but it is a house rule.

 

[MarkB]

Why can a slide be denied by the target? Its forced movement - the Bard is fully in control of whether the target goes or not, just like if he/she was trying to slide an enemy.

Realistically, in most circumstances the Bard wouldn't slide an ally who didn't want to be slid, but its certainly open to the Bard to do so.

The PH1 definition of "ally" for the purposes of powers requires the recipient to be a willing participant. When a creature is subjected to any power that specifies that it affects allies, he can choose to exclude himself simply by not being willing to accept the effects of that power, thus ceasing to be an ally for the purposes of that specific power.

 

[KarinsDad]

The PH1 definition of "ally" for the purposes of powers requires the recipient to be a willing participant. When a creature is subjected to any power that specifies that it affects allies, he can choose to exclude himself simply by not being willing to accept the effects of that power, thus ceasing to be an ally for the purposes of that specific power.

So that begs the question, if the PC is not an ally, is he an enemy?

Will he take damage that an effect does on enemies?

 

[Kingreaper]

So that begs the question, if the PC is not an ally, is he an enemy?

Will he take damage that an effect does on enemies?

I would say not necessarily.

He's only an enemy is the person using the power wants him to be IMO

Would a small rabbit passing through the field of battle be an enemy?

 

[Mirtek]

So that begs the question, if the PC is not an ally, is he an enemy?

Will he take damage that an effect does on enemies?

Yes. Since 4e doesn't know a neutral party (all non-allies are enemies, even if they mean you no harm), a fellow player refusing to be an ally while caught in a power that also harms enemies would get harmed.

 

[Kingreaper]

Yes. Since 4e doesn't know a neutral party (all non-allies are enemies, even if they mean you no harm), a fellow player refusing to be an ally while caught in a power that also harms enemies would get harmed.

Are you sure about that?
Is there RAW backing that up?

And note: Mean you no harm =/= you mean THEM no harm.

If not, think on it this way:
If a power says "all enemies" and someone wants to exclude a neutral party (ie. someone unconscious and tied up in a corner, surrounded by bad guys) you would deny them the ability to do so?

 

[Mirtek]

Are you sure about that?
Is there RAW backing that up?

And note: Mean you no harm =/= you mean THEM no harm.

If not, think on it this way:
If a power says "all enemies" and someone wants to exclude a neutral party (ie. someone unconscious and tied up in a corner, surrounded by bad guys) you would deny them the ability to do so?

PHB 1, page 57: " “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not)."

 

[MarkB]

So that begs the question, if the PC is not an ally, is he an enemy?

Will he take damage that an effect does on enemies?

"Ally" is one of your team-mates, and assumes a willing target.

"Enemy" is creatures who are not your ally.

Technically, by refusing "ally" status for purposes of a specific power, you place yourself into the "enemy" category for that power. I don't think I'd play it that way myself, but it's unlikely to occur very often, since it will only ever come up in relation to a power that has differing effects upon allies and enemies, and has effects that an ally might wish to refuse.

 

[Kingreaper]

PHB 1, page 57: " “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not)."

Hmmm, missed that.

That's.... odd.