Marking with the Aid Another "attack"

[UltimaGabe]

I think, at this point, it's clear that this is the Rules As Written. As written, the Fighter DOES mark when aiding another.

Now, whether that's the Rule As Intended, who knows?

 

[CapnZapp]

While I see the logic behind "you won't mark the enemy, you mark the AC" I don't think it holds up to scrutiny. What does "hitting the AC" even mean?

I would definitely allow a Fighter to aid-mark an enemy IMC.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Mmm, let's see:
- it's an attack
- it has a target
- whether it hit or not, if it uses the target's defenses or not, it doesn't matter because:

The Fighter marks if he attacks a target. That's it.

And it seems there's no doubt that Aid Another is an attack, against a target.

Does it make sesne to you (Mouseferatu)?
(I'm also arguing just for fun )

Yeah, I have to agree with this interpretation. The action states you have a target and make an attack. That is sufficient to place a mark. This would be an interesting question for the WotC Q&A board though, I don't recall ever seeing it discussed there and if you want rules lawyers all over something with a fine-toothed comb, well that's the place to go...

 

[spayne]

I'm going to be difficult and say "no."

Notice that the description does not say that you hit the target when you roll against AC 10. It says choose the target, roll against AC 10, and if you succeed, your ally gains a bonus against said target.

But the attack itself is not against the target, and does not represent a hit on said target. (In effect, you're rolling to distract the target and make it easier to hit.)

When you make the melee basic attack for aid another, you would use the melee basic attack power on PHB page 287 (unless you have a different power you can use as a MBA). It has a target of one creature, so you are attacking the creature who was chosen as the target of aid another. The attack line is Strength vs AC, that is where the AC 10 comes in. It has a hit line, so you can hit. It has damage in the hit line, so that is why aid another specifies that you do not deal damage.

 

[noodle fish mice]

Okay, just for the sake of conversation, and because I'm curious: does the melee basic attack include weapon proficiency, or not? This time, I'm inclined to say no, if only because it makes the possibility of missing an AC of 10 slightly higher.

 

[hero4hire]

Okay, just for the sake of conversation, and because I'm curious: does the melee basic attack include weapon proficiency, or not? This time, I'm inclined to say no, if only because it makes the possibility of missing an AC of 10 slightly higher.

Then it would just be a Strength check against DC 10? Meh.

 

[noodle fish mice]

True. That is kind of boring.

 

[sfedi]

Aid Another is boring.

 

[DracoSuave]

Okay, just for the sake of conversation, and because I'm curious: does the melee basic attack include weapon proficiency, or not?

Melee basic attack has the weapon keyword, so yes, it does.

The exceptions to MBA are that it's AC is 10, and that it deals no damage. Other effects that may occur because of the MBA do still occur. This includes, and is not limited to, the Fighter's mark.

Wow. Beast Form Druids.

This also means, for example, you cannot use a Spirit Companion to Aid Other, but that you -can- order a Beast Companion to.

 

[Eric Finley]

I'd have to go hunting for it, but at one point in the WotC CharOp forum we discussed this and tried to build an optimized Aid Another character. Oddly, the marking part didn't occur to any of us... but IIRC my build ended up as a warlord/infernalock (something like that) which, at early Epic, could use a standard action to:
- Pick an enemy within reach (with your polearm) and an adjacent ally. Roll a d20 and don't roll a one. If you roll a one, well, lowest-level Potions of Clarity are cheap, and the AV2 Stones of Stuff would be an even better solution that didn't exist then.
- Grant the ally a +4-+5 bonus to their next attack (I forget), +3 to damage on that attack, another +1 to damage on subsequent attacks until EoNT, slide the target four squares and knock it prone, place your Infernal Captain's Curse on it causing it to grant CA and suffer a decent chunk of fire damage at the start of its turns if adjacent to you...
- ...And then do that all over again with a different ally and the same or a different enemy.

He was like a Str 8 Warlord, and fearsome as hell.

And this was before Divine Power and Power of Skill and Righteous Brand. "Here you go, ranger boy. Have a +9 to hit these two prone, flaming, conveniently positioned targets, and a sizable damage bonus to boot. You know what, I'm hungry; I'll just spend an action point to let you hit them right now with lots of further bonuses."