Pathfinder 1E Marriage Issue (Aka Wife from Cheliax)

[RACER_X?HAHAHA]

... No. Unpleasant =/= Evil.

Are these arguments about alignment really still happening?! Apparently.

Yup, because there are degrees of morality.

 

[CroBob]

Yup, because there are degrees of morality.

Good for it. The fact remains that if a mortal humanoid has the alignment "evil", they freaking deserve it! They had to act so unpleasant that their eternal soul will abide in the evil aligned planes after death, wheeling and dealing with devils and such. Or, more accurately, being used as currency by devils and such. It's not quite something a rude dinner date deserves.

 

[RACER_X?HAHAHA]

Good for it. The fact remains that if a mortal humanoid has the alignment "evil", they freaking deserve it! They had to act so unpleasant that their eternal soul will abide in the evil aligned planes after death, wheeling and dealing with devils and such. Or, more accurately, being used as currency by devils and such. It's not quite something a rude dinner date deserves.

I disagree. Motivations are evil, actions are just a means to an end.

 

[Ryujin]

Three days? Isn't that moving a bit slow?

I think that's enough time for the marriage to be consummated and for the festivities to end. Before that might be too obvious, to even the town idiot.

 

[CroBob]

I disagree. Motivations are evil, actions are just a means to an end.

I agree at least in part (most evil people are motivated to do good, they simply have a twisted sense of what's good), and being motivated to be a rude dinner date doesn't deserve an eternity in some kind of hellish plane.

 

[Drake Cross]

We all have detect magic, since what magic user wouldn't have that. We do known the noble women has some magic item(s) on her or just some enchantment, but what we are not sure. I plan to try and identify any items she has by a glance to see if any hide alignment.

 

[N'raac]

I disagree. Motivations are evil, actions are just a means to an end.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. The end does not justify the means. Cliches are part of the superstructure of the alignment system.

 

[Aaron L]

I agree at least in part (most evil people are motivated to do good, they simply have a twisted sense of what's good), and being motivated to be a rude dinner date doesn't deserve an eternity in some kind of hellish plane.

Then it is a good thing that being a rude dinner date doesn't actually condemn one to Hell or the Abyss.

If you have an Evil alignment then you are Evil; it doesn't mean that you are "passively" Evil - it means you have actively, willingly done Evil things. You would willingly commit murder if it would benefit you and you knew that you wouldn't get caught, willingly cheat a starving person of their last crust of bread,; you are not merely "unpleasant."

Those shades of grey areas? Those are the Neutral alignments - of which the vast majority of humanity is composed. Even in Cheliax, the majority of people who profess membership in the church of Asmodeus are probably actually Neutral, and would only actually become Evil through active participation in the Evil ceremonies of the Asmodean religion, such as human sacrifice, or trafficking with Devils. If you have an Evil alignment, you have done things to deserve it and are "actively" Evil. If you are merely "passively" evil and haven't actually done anything Evil, than you have a Neutral alignment. If you have an Evil alignment than yes, you are a "bad person"; by the time you have an Evil alignment, you have earned it, and are deservedly Damned.

Alignment is a descriptor, not a predictor; you have to earn it. In order to have a Good alignment, you have to do Good things. Likewise, in order to have an Evil alignment you have to do Evil things. If you don't, you remain Neural as the day you were born, as most people do. If you do Evil things you have an Evil alignment, if you don't do Evil things then you don't have an Evil alignment, and if you have Evil thoughts but think better of it before you actually follow through on them, then you are merely human, and probably Neutral (although even the best Good aligned people may think Evil thoughts at times, humans are not perfect.)

Characters in D&D/Pathfinder aren't condemned to Hell for being unpleasant and having nasty thoughts, they are damned for committing Evil deeds.


Now as for the maintopic :

With the Chellish Gnome noblewoman, I would be wary but not condemn her just for her place of origin. She may have actively sought an opportunity such as this potential marriage as a way to get out of the oppressive society of Cheliax because she is a Good person and hated it, it could be a way to seek out adventure and new experiences to stave of the Bleaching, or maybe a combination of both. The Hellknight may actually be a "political officer" there to ensure her "loyalty." As I recall, non-humans (and even non-Chelaxian humans) aren't regarded too highly in Chellish society; don't they actually have a policy of enslaving halflings?

 

[RACER_X?HAHAHA]

So you're saying that a person that wants to kidnap, torture, murder, and then eat someone but doesn't because it's against the law is Lawful Neutral? Or a real life example, is someone that wants to give a homeless man a sandwich but doesn't because the law says he can't, is he also Lawful Neutral?

 

[Drake Cross]

Your idea about the Hellknight being around to watch her may fit since she wants to have him leave as soon as possible. Overall she has not been doing evil things, just staying at the expanding town to oversee things, but having not been organizing evil things or anything. The only problem was when she wanted to summon Erinyes to sing at the wedding which got my cleric all O_O "NONONONO!" My character however was interested since while he does not worship devils, he's just interested to see them. He is not against where she is from, just worried the traditions of her country may cause problems.