Mars Rover Perseverance Landing... and continuing...

[Umbran]

You know if we weren't in the middle of a global pandemic, through which America has suffered more deaths than any other nation, I'd be more likely to see the merit in "exploration for the fun of it." If we didn't have failing schools, a crumbling infrastructure, declining life expectancies, inadequate healthcare, and just generally a lower standard of living than the rest of the developed world, maybe I'd agree.

Except, of course, that the NASA budget is only half of one percent of the US budget. Cutting it would not substantially impact the major problems on the ground.

And except, of course, that NASA's budget is spent on Earth, and mostly within the US. All those dollars go into paying salaries of people who live on Earth, and to companies who make all the parts that NASA uses. It is not removed from the economy.

And, except, of course, that of all the government programs out there, NASA is one of the few that generates more value in the overall economy than it costs. We listed a few spinoff technologies, but overall, they are legion, and their value to the private sector is in excess of NASA'a budget.

Economically speaking, cutting NASA is cutting off your nose to spite your face. In terms of overall dollars, cutting it is a losing proposition.

Put great minds to work on that kind of stuff.

It isn't like NASA is the sole repository of great minds. You note the pandemic as a point - There were great minds left, right, and center were trying desperately to tell the Administration what needed to happen, both in terms of mitigation plans, and for the vaccine rollout. They were ignored. Plans already created were tossed out.

The block to handling these other problems is not lack of genius, or lack of money that could come from NASA. It is lack of political will. Beyond that, we get into real-world politics.

 

[Umbran]

What good does NASA do? If you want to totally ignore their accomplishments:

NASA employs 17,000 people, and supports 312,000 jobs nationwide. They generated 64.3 billion total economic output in the fiscal year 2019. NASA generates 7 billion in federal, state and local taxes.

Hey, @Arilyn , I'd love a cite on these numbers for use in other discussions, if you have it.

Note: in 2019, NASA's budget was $22.6 billion. Their output was $64.3 billion? They output nearly triple what they cost. Seems a good investment to me.

 

[Ryujin]

Hey, @Arilyn , I'd love a cite on these numbers for use in other discussions, if you have it.

Note: in 2019, NASA's budget was $22.6 billion. Their output was $64.3 billion? They output nearly triple what they cost. Seems a good investment to me.

Their 2020 Fiscal Report and other such documents would be a good source of those numbers. For example in 2020 they list 16,520 employees.

NASA Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Request - NASA

CORRECTION TO THE AUDIO FILE: In response to a question from the New York Times about how much the agency could save with the proposed cancellation of the

www.nasa.gov

 

[Arilyn]

Their 2020 Fiscal Report and other such documents would be a good source of those numbers. For example in 2020 they list 16,520 employees.

NASA Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Request - NASA

CORRECTION TO THE AUDIO FILE: In response to a question from the New York Times about how much the agency could save with the proposed cancellation of the

www.nasa.gov

Their 2020 Fiscal Report and other such documents would be a good source of those numbers. For example in 2020 they list 16,520 employees.

NASA Fiscal Year 2020 Budget Request - NASA

CORRECTION TO THE AUDIO FILE: In response to a question from the New York Times about how much the agency could save with the proposed cancellation of the

www.nasa.gov

Thanks. You beat me to it. There are also several NASA economic impact studies, that pop up on a Google search.

 

[Umbran]

There are also several NASA economic impact studies, that pop up on a Google search.

Yeah, but it sets such a better example if the person who makes the assertion shows their evidence, rather than telling folks who might not believe you that they can google it.

 

[Umbran]

Okay, this is funny.

'Dare mighty things': hidden message found on Nasa Mars rover parachute

Social media users say message is encoded in red-and-white pattern on parachute

www.theguardian.com

 

[Arilyn]

Yeah, but it sets such a better example if the person who makes the assertion shows their evidence, rather than telling folks who might not believe you that they can google it.

Ryujin beat me to it. The google suggestion was made because there are a lot of other sources out there that I thought I'd just mention.

 

[Rabulias]

Not wanting to stray too far into politics, but I will note that it seems to me there has been a marked dismissal of science, math, learning, knowledge, and experts in general in a portion of American society over the last few decades. That attitude has consequences that we are seeing today.

Though I am heartened by the efforts to focus on STEM over the last few years, and I am also buoyed by projects like Perseverance.

 

[Umbran]

Not wanting to stray too far into politics, but I will note that it seems to me there has been a marked dismissal of science, math, learning, knowledge, and experts in general in a portion of American society over the last few decades.

More than the past few decades. One can see anti-intellectual sentiment going back to the early days of the nation. Its root isn't strictly political, but is more broadly present in the culture.

 

[Orius]

I'm not trying to troll or criticize anyone's interest, but I'm left wondering what the point of this is. Haven't we had rovers on Mars for the past 40 years (or longer)?

They haven't all been rovers as other people pointed out. The Viking landers were stationary, as was Phoenix. And the Viking landers had technology that was over 45 years old as well. While the Viking landers returned no evidence of life on Mars, science and technology has advanced since their landings. Possibly the Viking landers were in very lifeless areas of Mars, or as some people have speculated, the crudeness of the instruments used may have destroyed any evidence of life. This current mission not only has much more advanced technology, but it's in a place that would have been conducive to supporting any Martian life that may have existed. Not only does this rover have better instruments to investigate specific scientific questions we have about Mars, but it's also designed to leave behind samples that a future mission can return to Earth that scientists can study directly in ways a rover can't.

The point of all of this is to determine if life did exist on Mars in the past and if any sort of life still exists. It's still an open question, and answering it is of fundamental importance to any manned presence on Mars. Beyond that the whole question of whether life exists elsewhere in the universe is one of the most fundamental unanswered questions in science today, one of the top 10 if not top 5 questions.

I very strongly disagree with anyone who thinks space exploration is a total waste of money, regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum.

More than the past few decades. One can see anti-intellectual sentiment going back to the early days of the nation. Its root isn't strictly political, but is more broadly present in the culture.

While there's always been that anti-intellectualism, it hasn't always been the same as it is today. Early Americans didn't really idealize stupidity, but rather they valued practical learning and education that was more immediately applicable to their daily lives and would help them prosper rather than more theoretical ideas. Modern anti-intellectualism isn't entirely the same, but there's a lot of it that's very political in nature.