Marshal PrC- Is WOTC lifting ideas

[Enkhidu]

A few more thoughts, in the same vein as P-kitty's:

Belen, by the reasoning you've used, D&D itself is a collection of plagiarized ideas. It owes its magic system to Jack Vance, its treatment of Elves and Dwarves to Tolkein, many of its clerical spells to Biblical sources, etc.

However, there's nothing wrong with taking an idea and using it, as long as you give credit where credit is due. EGG did this with his appendix of reading material in the back of the first DMG.

 

[diaglo]

Re: Marshal PrC- Is WOTC stealing

I wonder if they are stealing from Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion series.

and i wonder who Elizabeth Moon is.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

Not sure I see how she stole anything from DnD. Her world was very unique, IMO.

Really? I'm with drnuncheon. I read The Deed of Paksanarion and was struck by the D&D "feel". I wasn't reading dice rolls in the sentences like some authors, but I very much recall thinking how Moon must be a gamer when I was reading the book.

 

[F5]

It's been a while since I read the Paksanarrion books, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but I do remember thinking at the time that it seemed a lot like a D&D homebrew. Not that this is a bad thing. Regardless, I bet we could get a good discussion going in the "books movies etc" forum over whether or not Moon's books were based on D&D.

As for whether or not the Marshall is inspired by Moon's Marshalls, I'm OK with that, if it is. How much of the core D&D classes, monsters, etc are lifted from Tolkien? What about the Jack Vance magic system? A lot of D&D comes from literary sources, and I'd be happy to see them draw from something a little less mainstream.

My thought on the class is: did it really need to be core? Couldn't you do this just as well with a Prc? Ditto for the healer and the warmage. These are fantasy archetypes, true, but did they really need to be core classes?

[edit] I see Enkhidu beat me to the punch on the Tolkien/Vance thing. Curse you, slow typing fingers!

 

[Belen]

Well, I have a somewhat different view of things. I work in publishing, so I know the type of damage that stealing material can cause.

Yes, if WOTC asked permission from Elizabeth Moon, and then acknowledges that the idea came from her novels, then that would be great. It helps both parties if they entered that type of arrangement.

However, companies rarely think to ask for permission to use ideas and material. I know, because I deal with the permissions side of things at my job.

If it IS materially the same concept as the Marshals from Moon's books, and they publish it without giving credit for the idea, then they are materially damaging Moon's work. People will begin to believe that WOTC came up with the concept and start to believe that Moon's work came later, despite its earlier publication date.

I have seen it happen.

I am not saying that this is the case; however, we should not ignore something like this either. Sometimes, it seems as if the game publishers in our hobby do not take these things very seriously.

I could be wrong and the class could bear no resemblance to the Marshals from Moon, but I could also be right.

And, it is not as if Wizards has a very large R&D department any longer.....

 

[Wolfspider]

It seems like you're making a judgement based on pretty scant evidence. I'd hold off before making such a criticism...at least until you've actually read the book. Imagine that!

 

[Dinkeldog]

Really? I'm with drnuncheon. I read The Deed of Paksanarion and was struck by the D&D "feel". I wasn't reading dice rolls in the sentences like some authors, but I very much recall thinking how Moon must be a gamer when I was reading the book.

It was the second book especially that nailed that feeling for me. It seemed like the spellcasters were doing fire-and-forget even. She even used the term "paladin" in such a way as to instill religious overtones, unlike the standard pre-D&D meanings.

Beyond that, with a Marshall being a military rank in armies, I don't think there's too much of a problem here.

Having said all that, anyone that attempts to play a paladin in one of my games must read that series.

 

[Belen]

No doubt. Best Paly character I have ever seen! Paksennarion is a must read for people who'd like to play one.

Again, I am not throwing out accusations and I did mention in my first post that I would like to read the stats before I make a final decision.

I am just throwing out the POSSIBILITY.

 

[Fanog]

Even if you're just speculating, it just isn't a nice thing to do.

The hint of plagiarism can be as bad (or even worse) then the accusal itself. I'd think it's wise to thread very carefully around these subjects, and try your best to get all the facts before throwing out possibilities.

Fanog

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

Moon was in the armed forces where she was exposed to D&D, possibly even playing a couple of games. I can see how the rules woudl influence her world. And by far it is a rather interesting setting (a bit like Birthright, but seen from the bottom rung - the mercenary warrior).

Is it 'stealing'. Likely not, unless they also went out of their way to also take the same divine human-god-messiah they worship, the fact that their temples are based on barns and corrals, that they fight with blunt weapons because their god's chosen weapon was a simple hunk of wood, etc. Then it would be stealing - but I trust Hasbro to respect another person's IP, because it set bad precedent for them to violate IP.