Marshall Tweaks

[DragonTurtle]

Every class has it advocates and critics, I feel that the Marshall is an underpowered class, but one that I would like to add to my world. I thought about increasing the BAB to equal that of a fighter, however I decided that wasn't the flavor I was looking to add, the Marshall has buffs he could use if he wanted to be a better fighter. Instead I wanted to keep its role in making others better, but also give it more to do since most of its powers were passive.

So here are my fixes for my game, thoughts?

Marhshalls gain 6 skill points a level not 4.

Major Auras increase in power at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th level and 18th level to a maximum of +5.

Marshalls gain a bonus feat at 1st, 6th, 12th, and 18th level. The feat can be from the Fighter’s list of bonus feats, Skill focus, Leadership or a Leadership Feat from Heroes of Battle. The Marshall must meet the prereqs for the feat.

This replaces the bonus feat skill focus (Diplomacy) normally gained at first level.

At 4th level when the Marshall gains the ability to grant a move action, he can also use one use of that ability to grant an ally within 60’ a bonus to any roll equal to the Marshall’s Intelligence modifier (if positive). The bonus can be granted after the roll is made, but before the result is announced.

At 20th level the Marshall’s auras work as long as he is within sight of his allies.


New Feat for Marshalls
Sudden Aura Change
Sometimes you need to help an ally out when it isn’t your turn.
Requirement: A minor Marshall's aura
Benefit: 1/day you can switch a minor aura in effect to a different minor aura known as an immediate action.
Normal: Normally an aura can be switched out as a free action.
Special: This feat can be taken more than once, each time adding 1 additional use of the ability.
This feat can be taken as a marshall bonus feat.

 

[SteelDraco]

My problem with the marshal is that you lose any reason to continue taking levels in it after the Grant Move Action ability. The auras just aren't interesting enough to keep taking the class, IMO. It's fairly front-loaded, too, since you can dip for a few levels and gain, say, +Charisma modifier on all damage rolls when flanking for your whole party. That's better than a die (or two, depending on your Charisma) of sneak attack damage.

I think it'd be interesting if they eventually learned how to grant virtual feats, so that anyone who's listening to them gained the use of, say, Power Attack, or one of a list of combat and tactic-related feats.

As to your changes, I think it would help the class, and spread out some of the abilities better. I'm still not sure I'd want to keep taking it after 5th level, though. I personally cap the Minor Aura at your Charisma modifier or level, whichever is lower, and then give them a fighter BAB.

I do really like the feat, though. Yoink.

 

[DragonTurtle]

Thanks SteelDraco for your opinions, as I mentioned I really did consider the improving of the BAB, however really hesitated in doing so. With the feats and using the right aura the Marshall could be a more effective fighter if that is the route the player wants to go. What I really wanted to push was a reason for the character to have a high Intelligence along with a high Charisma.

Looking over my edits, it dawned on me, that the 20th level ability is probably too powerful, when I added it I was thinking a group of adventurers in a dungeon, where line of sight isn't guaranteed and where on average 4 people will benefit.

What I didn't think of is a battlefield of soldiers with the Marshall on higher ground within sight of a good portion of the army. That is a little too powerful, although kinda cool for an epic marshall.

 

[Nifft]

In light of the Dragon Shaman, do you consider the Marshal worth saving?

-- N

 

[Mouseferatu]

In light of the Dragon Shaman, do you consider the Marshal worth saving?

-- N

I do. They're very, very different in theme and style. I can see a marshal as a noble knight on horseback in the style of Sir Lancelot. Can't really a dragon shaman doing that.

I like the suggestions here, but my only issue is that I want to keep the marshal fixes really simple. I'm playing one in an upcoming Red Hand of Doom campaign, and what we've done is:

BAB to full, making the marshal a true front-liner.
HD to d10, for same.
Skills to 6, rather than 4.

 

[airwalkrr]

I have seen several marshals and they have never been underpowered at all. Not even close. If anything they are prone to heavy abuse. If you play a marshal with a 12 Charisma, you will not be that impressive, but if you start with a decent score like 16+ then you will be in for one awesome character. Many years ago in one of my earlier 3e campaigns a marshal was personally responsible for breaking more combats than all the other characters combined. His trip bonus was so good, he once tripped a behir... twice! It was not until later campaigns that my players discovered the Motivate Dexterity aura and the initiative bonus it grants. Before long they were asking if they could play monster races (with bonuses to Charisma) with marshal levels just so they could get the initiative bonus. I usually do not allow monster races so that idea never flew in my campaigns, but I have seen other campaigns where it did, to great effect.

IMC, the marshal gets a downgrade. The minor aura starts at +1 and improves to +2 at 5th, +3 at 10th, etc. I allow the marshal to get Grant Move Action a level earlier (3rd) and get it every 3 levels to make it a smidgen better. To keep Charisma relatively important, the range of the marshal's auras and grant move action ability is equal to his Charisma modifier x 10 feet (minimum 10 feet). It probably wouldn't hurt to toss in a couple bonus feats, but I am usually reluctant to do that as I see it as stepping on the fighter's turf. And a couple bonus feats is where I would cap it. No more than two. Maybe one at 10th level and one at 17th.

 

[Nifft]

BAB to full, making the marshal a true front-liner.
HD to d10, for same.
Skills to 6, rather than 4.

Holy crud! I'd consider taking levels of that even without any other class features.

-- N

 

[DragonTurtle]

In light of the Dragon Shaman, do you consider the Marshal worth saving?

-- N

Honestly I do, the Marshall's abilities are all extraordinary abilities that give it a whole different flavor than the Dragon Shaman. The marshall can fit into a legion of knights, a mercenary company or an adventuring group in almost every campaign style. The Dragon Shaman's flavor is quite different, even if they are both support roles.

 

[DragonTurtle]

BAB to full, making the marshal a true front-liner.
HD to d10, for same.
Skills to 6, rather than 4.

I had considered this, however if I did so, I would probably leave the hitpoints at d8, comparable to a Ranger (2 good saves. good BAB and 6 skill points a level). As I mentioned though, I shied away from this because I felt that there were enough frontline fighter classes, and the support role was really an unsaturated spot with mostly the bard and Dragon Shaman.

 

[DragonTurtle]

I have seen several marshals and they have never been underpowered at all. Not even close.

I definitely do see the potential of abuse on their minor auras, as you mentioned they don't cap so someone who places a number of points in Charisma, and continues to boost it, will really be able to do some spectacular things.

Unfortunately I am unable to get anyone to take the class underpowered or overpowered, what I wanted to do, was not add too much power to the class but give it more options to make it more attractive.

I appreciate your comments about the class, and I will take it as a warning. Hopefully by not boosting the minor auras I didn't break it further.