Level Up (A5E) Martial Class

[Snaggletooth]

So I have a friend who was reading the Marshal class and noticed something. Figured I'd get a bit of clarification. The Commanding Presence ability let's you pass an attack to an ally when you take the attack action. If the Marshal is holding a weapon with the dual-wield tag, can he make an attack, then pass his bonus action attack using Commanding Presence? Or does it only work with the attack action?

 

[Steampunkette]

So I have a friend who was reading the Marshal class and noticed something. Figured I'd get a bit of clarification. The Commanding Presence ability let's you pass an attack to an ally when you take the attack action. If the Marshal is holding a weapon with the dual-wield tag, can he make an attack, then pass his bonus action attack using Commanding Presence? Or does it only work with the attack action?

Looks like it works with Bonus Action, too. It doesn't specify that the attack you forego has to be part of the attack action, only that it triggers off the attack action.

 

[Mike Myler]

So I have a friend who was reading the Marshal class and noticed something. Figured I'd get a bit of clarification. The Commanding Presence ability let's you pass an attack to an ally when you take the attack action. If the Marshal is holding a weapon with the dual-wield tag, can he make an attack, then pass his bonus action attack using Commanding Presence? Or does it only work with the attack action?

You decide whether or not to use Commanding Presence when you take the Attack action.
When you take the Attack action, you're taking an action. When you augment your Attack action with two-weapon fighting, you're taking a bonus action. You can't take a bonus action and an action at the same time—one needs to happen first, and those extra attacks from two-weapon fighting don't exist until you spend the bonus action (after Attack, when you decide whether or not to Commanding Presence).

You can use some combat maneuvers and Commanding Presence (because you activate the combat maneuver and then take the Attack action as part of its activation), but not anything that requires the use of another type of action (like a reaction or bonus action).

 

[Steampunkette]

You decide whether or not to use Commanding Presence when you take the Attack action.
When you take the Attack action, you're taking an action. When you augment your Attack action with two-weapon fighting, you're taking a bonus action. You can't take a bonus action and an action at the same time—one needs to happen first, and those extra attacks from two-weapon fighting don't exist until you spend the bonus action (after Attack, when you decide whether or not to Commanding Presence).

You can use some combat maneuvers and Commanding Presence (because you activate the combat maneuver and then take the Attack action as part of its activation), but not anything that requires the use of another type of action (like a reaction or bonus action).

Ah, but aren't main hand and off-hand attacks interspersable?

Dual wielding, take the attack action and swing once. Then use your off-hand attack to kill a low-health enemy you just smacked, then use Extra Attack as the back half of the attack action, then off-hand number 2 gets sacrificed to offer up an attack to an ally?

After all, you can move, attack, move attack, move so long as you have enough movement and attacks, interrupting your Attack Action to travel.

 

[Stalker0]

Ah, but aren't main hand and off-hand attacks interspersable?

They are not. There is no clause that allows people to mix in a bonus action or anything else in between the results of a current action.

There are two exceptions to the rule:

• Use an Object: This is specifically noted as things you can do during an action
• Movement: Movement and attacks gain a special synergy, and you are allowed to "move, attack, move, attack" kind of thing.

But that's it, you cannot use bonus action abilities in the middle of an attack action.

 

[Steampunkette]

They are not. There is no clause that allows people to mix in a bonus action or anything else in between the results of a current action.

There are two exceptions to the rule:

• Use an Object: This is specifically noted as things you can do during an action
• Movement: Movement and attacks gain a special synergy, and you are allowed to "move, attack, move, attack" kind of thing.

But that's it, you cannot use bonus action abilities in the middle of an attack action.

I get that... but.

1) Use an Object is a specific action that you can take, or something you can do while taking ANY OTHER ACTION such as Hide, Search, Ready, or Tumble. It's not specific to Attack.

2) The Dual Wielding entry on 446 doesn't say anything about COMPLETING the Attack Action. Only that you -take- the Attack Action. There's also nothing in there about an order of operations or attacks where you must make your main hand attacks before off-hand attacks.

Since Move and Attack are different classes of action (Movement is it's own thing while Attack/Dash/Disengage/Use Object are all individual actions separate from movement) and Bonus Action is similarly separate...

Is there a particular reason you -shouldn't- be able to make your main hand and off-hand attacks interspersable? Or make a melee attack with your main hand weapon and use Crossbow Expertise to immediately fire an off-hand loaded hand-crossbow at a distant target, then move and stab someone else with your extra attack?

 

[WanderingMystic]

Regardless once you hit level 5 and get your extra attack you can make the attack action, getting 2 attacks, chose to use commanding presence for 1 of your 2 attacks, then use your bonus action to dual wield getting 2 offhand attacks.

 

[Mike Myler]

I looked earlier today but don't think there's anything RAW about the order of your attacks when you augment Attack with a bonus action for two-weapon fighting. That's not what's up here.

You cannot simultaneously take an action and another type of action at the same time, because you can't use your bonus action to affect your Attack action until it exists. As soon as your Attack action exists, you choose whether to use Commanding Presence or not, and then can modify your Attack action how you please.

 

[Satirical Bard]

I think it's pretty clear that you can't do commanding presence plus 1 of your 2 attacks under TWF, but it's absolutely certainly clear you can't use your BA to do it. If you were ever going to allow it as a house rule, you'd allow the BA off-hand attack, not the main hand attack.