Martial Healing

[twilsemail]

It kind of drives me crazy that a Druid really has to search to find a Healing power and nearly all of them are Dailies, but Warlords get them right and left.

I've heard this from a few people. Well, the Martial healing thing in general. I think most people that are irked by "Martial Healing" are those that still think of damage as cuts and bruises as opposed to physical damage and demoralization.

I've seen you post a ton of times, so I know you're not new at this, KarinsDad. Can I ask what actually bothers you about the idea of Martial Healing?

I know that rousing someone from unconciousness with a few words can seem a bit mystical, but I think with RP that can be represented well enough.

 

[keterys]

I can understand having a problem with getting someone unconscious up, but a problem with martial healing _at all_? That suggests an implicit disconnect behind the concept that hit points aren't purely damage, which I think you pretty much have to adhere to in order for the system not to explode brains

 

[MrMyth]

Admittedly, at least part of the problem seems more that KarinsDad wasn't a fan of them splitting the druid conceptually into druid (wildshaper/nature caster) and shaman (nature healer/companions/summoner). I could have used a few more druid healing utilities to capture a bit of the old feel, but I don't think adding full healing functionality to a controller would have been remotely a good decision.

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't have an issue with Martial Inspiring. There should be a lot of ways that Martial PCs can inspire other PCs to greatness.

I have an issue with Martial Healing.


Healing is healing. Some major percentage of hit points should be actual damage. It should not mostly be fatigue, it should not mostly be luck, it should not mostly be morale. A significant percentage of it should be, "I got smacked around".

By having Martial Healing, hit points become 100% not damage at all as opposed to 50+% actual damage and I don't particularly like that concept.


Playing D&D as "You don't actually get physically damaged until that very last attack" messes with my sense of disbelief. I am no longer immersed in a fun roleplaying experience, I'm jarred into being reminded that I am playing a game. JME.

 

[TerraDave]

This is an oldy, not sure its a goody.

What is martial healing? Over coming pain, adrenaline, placebo effect, avoiding shock, will-to-power. Fine. Healing surges represent a limit on it. Also fine.

The problem is that PCs are supposedly getting clawed, stabbed, set on fire, burned with acid, poisened...

Sure, some may just be a loss of energy and a lot of scratches. But if you have an 8 round combat of getting clawed, stabbed, set on fire, burned with acid and poisened, encouraging words seem like a stretch. No matter what hp "represents". (Rapid overnight recovery is a related issue).

Though if its good enough for Die Hard, maybe its good enough for your game. Maybe.

 

[Kingreaper]

Playing D&D as "You don't actually get physically damaged until that very last attack" messes with my sense of disbelief. I am no longer immersed in a fun roleplaying experience, I'm jarred into being reminded that I am playing a game. JME.

Martial, inspiration based, healing doesn't require that you not have been hit.


Sure, you're bleeding, sure your leg is badly injured, but you know what? YOU WILL ING PRESS ON OR I WILL TAKE YOUR HEAD OFF AND CARRY IT HOME TO YOUR FAMILY IN A BAG!

That's how I picture one of the warlords I've played with.

 

[KarinsDad]

Admittedly, at least part of the problem seems more that KarinsDad wasn't a fan of them splitting the druid conceptually into druid (wildshaper/nature caster) and shaman (nature healer/companions/summoner). I could have used a few more druid healing utilities to capture a bit of the old feel, but I don't think adding full healing functionality to a controller would have been remotely a good decision.

Druids are listed as potentially secondary Leaders and then they don't get any real Healing powers until mid-Paragon.

Sometimes wrong with that picture.


Adding a few Encounter powers that had side effects of Healing wouldn't break a Druid.

 

[keterys]

KD, do you also object to Second Wind, or to healing during a short rest?

I think it helps to visualize it more like Die Hard. You can still be pretty damn beat up physically, while able to continue fighting just fine. One scene you're barely walking, the next you suck it up and you're back into it. Feet are still bleeding, sure, but you've overcome that.

I've actually multiple times seen the premise that you aren't hurt physically _at all_ until bloodied. That's "First Blood", as it were.

 

[KarinsDad]

KD, do you also object to Second Wind, or to healing during a short rest?

Second Wind was an issue for me when the game first came out, but I now visualize it as "Die Hard" and since it is once per encounter, no biggy.

Since we have a Cleric in our group, short rests are magical healing.

I think it helps to visualize it more like Die Hard. You can still be pretty damn beat up physically, while able to continue fighting just fine. One scene you're barely walking, the next you suck it up and you're back into it. Feet are still bleeding, sure, but you've overcome that.

Meh.

I don't want to put "mental wrappers" around the word Healing.

Healing should be healing, it shouldn't be "inspiration" or "suck it up" or any of that nonsense.

Just because one can kind of, sort of, shoehorn fluff the healing mechanics into an inspiration rational shouldn't mean that one should be forced to do so.

Healing should be healing. It should be magical / mystical / supernatural and it shouldn't be inspiration and it shouldn't be mundane (i.e. martial IMO).

One could use Temporary Hit points for Inspiration. They keep one in the fight, even if the PC has 1 hit point remaining. But they don't bring an unconscious PC conscious.


In fact, that would be a good fluff and mechanics line to draw in the sand.

Second Wind could even be Temporary Hit Points.

Hmmmm. Something to think about if I ever want to house rule this stuff.


One of my biggest issue with 4E is that every PC now has magic. Magic isn't special anymore. Segregating Martial Inspiration into temporary hit points and Magical Healing into real hit points would help me with that.

 

[korjik]

Druids are listed as potentially secondary Leaders and then they don't get any real Healing powers until mid-Paragon.

Sometimes wrong with that picture.


Adding a few Encounter powers that had side effects of Healing wouldn't break a Druid.

Druids should have been leaders and Shamans should have been controllers. Both would have fit into those roles better.