D&D 5E Martials should just get free feats

[James Gasik]

Sorry Krachek, I want to make sure I understand; you think that combat is only a small part of D&D game play?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Balance is not a good thing. It is a bad thing.

that is far from a common belief. I would go as far as to say that it is the reverse of my experience.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Nothing is unfair. No one is being forced to play a fighter

this is why by the time we quite 3.5 we mostly just used fighter as dips and warblade was our go to (but sometimes knight or swordsage) for 'fighter concepts' and why we refluff hexblades so often to being martial heroes... cause we WANT to play fighter concepts but with more options power and breath of abilities.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Fighter was consistently the most popular class in 4e. The only class that ever threatened its popularity was Warlord. Those two were far and away the favorite classes in 4e.

I saw more fighters and warlords in 4e then I have seen fighter. rogues rangers palidens and monks in 5e...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Based on what? We actually have data on this. Unbalanced versions of D&D are objectively more popular than balanced versions and most think they are better.

if that were true 3.5 would be more popular then 5e. Your metric fails hard

We can't objectively show causality between unbalance and popularity, but we can show correlation between unbalance and popularity and that refutes the idea that balance is necessary for people to like the game.

no you can show that the most balanced version out sold the most unbalanced version (4e outsold 3e) but you can show that a less balanced 5e out sold 4e. but at the same time you can show a more balanced 5e out sells a less balanced 3e

 

[Micah Sweet]

I saw more fighters and warlords in 4e then I have seen fighter. rogues rangers palidens and monks in 5e...

I actually think the issue was that in 4e, playing a wizard was far less fun. I know that was my experience.

 

[Micah Sweet]

if that were true 3.5 would be more popular then 5e. Your metric fails hard

no you can show that the most balanced version out sold the most unbalanced version (4e outsold 3e) but you can show that a less balanced 5e out sold 4e. but at the same time you can show a more balanced 5e out sells a less balanced 3e

To be fair, you can also show that a less balanced 5e outsold a more balanced 4e.

You have to use all the metrics.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I actually think the issue was that in 4e, playing a wizard was far less fun. I know that was my experience.

I will agree here. the wizard was at best a mid teir class (most controlers were) for fun at table... the most fun I saw people having was being a heroic weapon wielder... but I still saw divine and priomal and even psionic classes...

the Swordmage I think was 3rd or 44th most played I saw (and my 2nd most played by me personally almost 3/4 of my character were warlord, swordmage, or multi iinto warlord)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

To be fair, you can also show that a less balanced 5e outsold a more balanced 4e.

You have to use all the metrics.

that is correct, 5e outsold 4e though is not proof that unbalanced outsells balanced the other two data points refute that

 

[Micah Sweet]

that is correct, 5e outsold 4e though is not proof that unbalanced outsells balanced the other two data points refute that

True, but you pointedly skipped the data point on his side in favor of the ones on your side. That's unfair rhetoric.