GMforPowergamers
Legend
casterDetracting from fighters? Good for the game. Detracting from the mighty wizards? Bad.
I say thee nay.
supremacy
it's baked in and when you try to change it you would have an easier time fighting your government
casterDetracting from fighters? Good for the game. Detracting from the mighty wizards? Bad.
I say thee nay.
or give the fighters a subsystem that allows them to opt into (say through making a new class or a subclass) and let them have the same type of options so they can make out of combat as usefule as a wizard even if it's diffrent waysI agree 100% that Wizards are more powerful than fighters. If you need to fix it though, then fix the disparity itself - which is spell casting!
I agree... giving them more damage is not the answer.The prevailing argument here is we need to make the fighter even better at what he is already the best in the game.
this is why I suggest breaking the fighter into 3 based on the 3 subclasses in the PHB, keep a champion style simple fighter (they can even keep the name) give us a half caster like the sword mage or magus or dusk blade, and a complex warlord or warblade or sword sage.That will mean other players who WANT TO DO THAT THING (melee) won't be able to do it well at all.
we already hve expertise in skills breaking that, and spells that are Save or suck... soThat is not good and it is not consistent with the bounded accuracy design of 5E.
A hexblade, a college of valor bard, a college of swords bard, and even a wizard blade singer are as good at 9th and 10th level as any fighter... they have 1 or 2 less hp per level comprable and is some cases better AC the same attack the same number of attacks and on top of that have 5th level spell slots.The fighter is best as single target damage from a non-rogue, non-Paladin, not melee combat because melee combat is more than damage. The desire is to make them better at combat by giving them things to actually do.
I love that you takeI check out some things in the DM guide and the PHB.
Social interaction is the term used to describe interacting with an NPC and usually reach a certain goal. Role playing is usually associated with social interaction and influence the resolve of the interaction. PHB say that we use dice and check to finally resolve the interaction, but the DM guide say that some DM prefer to simply let talk the players and don’t use dice.
and don't realize that means that some DM prefer to simply let the players use dice.some DM prefer to simply let talk the players and don’t use dice.
except teh caster can choose... the non caster can not. THe casters (especially prep and SUPER especially cleric/druid prep where you know every spell) can say "Today I feel like throwing damage" and "Today I feel like locking down monsters" and "Today I feel kinda like I want diviniation for a mystery" or "Today I want to focus on movement and special circumstance"The term “encounter” is solely use for what look like a combat encounters with all its variant. See DMG page 81. The objectives for PCs may vary, and sometimes the objective is to avoid combat but overall it cover mainly what most people think about when we say “roll initiative”. In fact it is there that the casters can handle more diverse objectives with better chance of succes. If the encounters is a basic combat Fighter will perform well. If the objectives require movement, protection, avoidance and so on, caster will more shine.
i wouldn't say it that way, but close enough.Or alternatively you could go to a 4E design where you had mechanical parity and things for different classes just had different names with largely the same mechanics.
someone suggesteed to us that if you gestalt fighter and rogue and let the player take both subclasses (but bar the eldritch knight and arcane tricketer from stacking) you still don't outshine war cleric or blade singers...Not just magic, spells. If you made it so fighter kept all the ebilities they currently have and started full caster progression at level 4 then they would be pretty balanced.
i just show that social interaction can be interpreted and play way differently. Of course some DM prefer roll dice, but combat encounters are run much more the same way by all and we see only very rare exception where DM don’t use dice for combat encounters.I love that you take
and don't realize that means that some DM prefer to simply let the players use dice.
except teh caster can choose... the non caster can not. THe casters (especially prep and SUPER especially cleric/druid prep where you know every spell) can say "Today I feel like throwing damage" and "Today I feel like locking down monsters" and "Today I feel kinda like I want diviniation for a mystery" or "Today I want to focus on movement and special circumstance"
and the big trick is that by level 5 or 6 the caster can say "I will prep 1/2 combat spells 1/3 movement/invorment spells and the rest will be social and divination... oh and I know some divination rituals too"
They are exaggerating certainly, but there were an awful lot of class powers that functionally did the same thing for different classes with different names.i wouldn't say it that way, but close enough.
I don't want a fighter throwing a teleport, but being able to jump like the jump spell or grabe and hold walls like spider climb, or even disrupt a spell being cast in range like counter spell all seem like martial abilities...
Healing through inspiration is cool on living targets, but a quick burst of the fantasy equivalent of CPR could do what revivify does.
4e had an aura where everyone that started in it took 1w damage sounds fine to me too.
COme and get it was not a fire ball
an ability to fast talk and make a target make a cha save or gain the charmed condition seems fine to me.
taking a deep breath and asking the spirit of your father to give you guidance as to where to go then finding the secret door is right out of princess bride
knocking prone, stunning, and disarming all seem to be perfect ideas
5th level legend lore could be meditating and asking the spirits of all the warriors you descend from to help you find some big clue (like optimus traveling into the matrix)
someone suggesteed to us that if you gestalt fighter and rogue and let the player take both subclasses (but bar the eldritch knight and arcane tricketer from stacking) you still don't outshine war cleric or blade singers...
let me thenNo one I have replied to has given a specific example or experience articulating the alleged problem.
I hate the saving throw system of 3e/5e toothis is a fundamental issue with 5e, honestly. the entire saving throw system is just stupid.
it is the only thign we have... no one on here has better then anecedotal evidence of anything dealing with this game... some of us have more some less.No, it's not—not in the way you want it to be. Anecdotal evidence is useful for existence claims. It cannot prove the kinds of things you want it to prove.
EzekielRaidan has a point. A good way to say this might be that anecdotal evidence is not data. Anecdotal evidence does not generalize. Anecdotal evidence is effectively self-selected polling, and does not provide a representative sample from which one can make broad claims.
liek I said, close enoughThey are exaggerating certainly, but there were an awful lot of class powers that functionally did the same thing for different classes with different names.
so if we rarely see combat done that way you understand the divide between player skill and character skill.i just show that social interaction can be interpreted and play way differently. Of course some DM prefer roll dice, but combat encounters are run much more the same way by all and we see only very rare exception where DM don’t use dice for combat encounters.
again split up the martial roles more so those smart players can choose to be martial OR caster...And I agree that casters allow thinker and smart players to run the show over players that simply want to be there, roleplay, and follow the group and the story. Those players still need classes and build that require less management and thinking.
yes... more options = better.... instead of "all teh experienced people that know how to game the system ignore 3-5 classes, and as such loose access to entrie concepts/If the game give martial classes as much options as casters then thinker and active players will simply run the show with any classes. Is it a better thing?
and I like 4e as the best D&Dthey already try to offer all classes the same experience and options in 4ed. Will they try it again with one DND? Not sure.
we often refluff sword bard or hexblade as our fighters... sometinmes warcleric or even once a druidBut I think it is pretty easy to adapt existing classes to fluff a complex martial class. Just tweak the frame of paladin, Ranger, warlock and fluff a selection of spells into martial abilities you will have what you ask for.
The OP did right. He home brew his game.
Then your are doomed.so if we rarely see combat done that way you understand the divide between player skill and character skill.
again split up the martial roles more so those smart players can choose to be martial OR caster...
yes... more options = better.... instead of "all teh experienced people that know how to game the system ignore 3-5 classes, and as such loose access to entrie concepts/
and I like 4e as the best D&D
we often refluff sword bard or hexblade as our fighters... sometinmes warcleric or even once a druid
Yup. WotC does not have the best interests of a lot of people here at heart. They're aiming for a bigger fish that only swallows softer, less flavorful bait.Then your are doomed.
5ed don’t fill your needs, and for what I see from the one dnd playtest it will be worse for you In the future. Prepared spells for everyone, spell preparation linked to spell slots won’t satisfied creative players. The game will be easier and more straightforward than actual edition. That is normal since they aim a large audience of new players.
You will have to continue home brew and play 4ed.
Indeed, we have here a bunch of specialists, gamers, designers, like 1:1000 players.Yup. WotC does not have the best interests of a lot of people here at heart. They're aiming for a bigger fish that only swallows softer, less flavorful bait.
That is already what we have in the game...for the exact same reason.this is why I suggest breaking the fighter into 3 based on the 3 subclasses in the PHB, keep a champion style simple fighter (they can even keep the name) give us a half caster like the sword mage or magus or dusk blade, and a complex warlord or warblade or sword sage.
how cheery....Then your are doomed.
that I why I suggest changes5ed don’t fill your needs,
only if I do as you suggest and "shut up and go away"and for what I see from the one dnd playtest it will be worse for you In the future.
or I can keep banigng my drum and hope enough people agree and join me to get WotC to change there minds.Prepared spells for everyone, spell preparation linked to spell slots won’t satisfied creative players. The game will be easier and more straightforward than actual edition. That is normal since they aim a large audience of new players.
You will have to continue home brew and play 4ed.
no it isn'tThat is already what we have in the game...for the exact same reason.
correct, and if you go back to my example build I didn't take sharp shooter or GWM I took lucky and two feats that give misc abailities... so I totally see what you are trying, I just feel it isn't enouigh.Though people see me giving free feats as just giving martials more damage, but it actively does give them way more utility too, if not more than damage, there is more utility feats than damage feats lol.
did you miss my example buildd?There is a lot to do
I hope by reposing this we can get back to the topic... but I bet I will see 5-9 argueing about if the fighter needs a fix and 1 or 2 more suggesting that nothing we say matters to MAYBE 1 about the topic of the thread,,,lets imagine a 9th level fighter... this is when they are are (by raw) the worst, they have not gotten there 3rd attack and they do not have much other then hp to speak of.
Okay so lets make a quick champion (RAW) the arrya is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8
So lets say I am a dex build... I will fight with a rapier(refluff as elven longsword) and longbow I am making a 2014phb half elf with the high elf (so I can get a cantrip) as my race.
So I am putting 10 into str 15 and +1 into dex 13 and +1 into con 8 into int 14 into wis and 12 into cha that gets +2
I get action surge and second wind each 1/sr indomintable 1/long rest
defensive figtingg style gives me +1 AC
I get 3 normal ASI plus your 2 feats
I am taking prestidigitation at will
I make 2 attacks per attack action and I crit on a 19+
I add half prof to str dex and can checks (including skills) that I don't add prof too...
I am going to up my dex to 18 with 1 ASI, take defensive duelist with another, then fey touched for detect magic and misty step each 1/ day and I get to boost my int to a 9.
Your two bonus are easy... lucky and shadow touched for invisability and disguise self and boosting that int to a 10.
So I end up with Str 10 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 CHa 14
1 cantrip at will 2 2nd level spells at 1/day 2 1st level spells at 1/day +1 to my AC add prof to 1 hit as reaction as well 3 luck pts for rerolls 1 indomitable for rerolls and action surge and second wind.... I have 9d10HD so about 70hp most likely an AC 18 with +4 against 1 target as a reaction.
I attack twice with a 1d8+4 and attack with a +8 to hit.
now lets make a hexblade warlorck.
also a half elf, this time no house rule boosts
at level 9 I have 2 5th level spell slots (short rest) 9 spells kknown between 1st and 5th I have 2 attacks for 1d8+5 and my attacks are at +9 my save DCs are also at 17 and my AC is 17 and my HD is 9d8
its much closer then I thought...