D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.

[Flamestrike]

I think you're confused about the casting time portion.

Magic Circle has a 1-minute casting time.

So? It doesnt require concentration so I can maintain Wall of Force while I cast Magic Circle and Planar Binding.

So since you're concentrating, Wall of Force gets dropped before the actual casting is up.

What? Why?

Your simulacrum doesn't have a Meteor Swarm because it came from a Wish spell, its missing that 9th level spell..

Is there any reason why I cant cast it with Simulacrum spell?

Why do I have to use wish?

This inflicts the Wish-Penalty and you may be unable to regain Wish.

What wish penalty? I can safely wish for up to 25,000gp in stuff.

Ill wish for a diamond, and sell that for spell components before the game starts.

 

[Asisreo]

What? Why?

When you start casting a spell with a casting time of more than an action, you have to start concentrating on it. But once you start concentrating, that ends any spells you were concentrating on previously, because that's how concentration works in the game, under the Spellcasting section of the PHB, subsection Casting Time.

Is there any reason why I cant cast it with Simulacrum spell?

Meteor Swarm itself is a 9th-level spell and you must have a 9th-level slot to cast it, your Simulacrum doesn't have that.

What wish penalty? I can safely wish for up to 25,000gp in stuff.

Ill wish for a diamond, and sell that for spell components before the game starts.

Wish's Penalty: The stress of casting this spell to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a long rest, you take 1d10 necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can't be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength drops to 3, if it isn't 3 or lower already, for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

I was being diplomatic before, but this Planetar fight is so, so silly. 2 CR 16 creatures is a Deadly encounter for a single character. Just because a wizard can't win doesn't make the fighter, who is going to do just as badly, better.

 

[Flamestrike]

When you start casting a spell with a casting time of more than an action, you have to start concentrating on it.

Good point.

Ill just wish the magic circle cast as if it was 8th level slot into existence then, and direct my simulacrum to use his 9th level slot to do the same (I created him with my Simulacrum spell).

Single action casting time. No concentration. They're now trapped in the circle, and I can safely drop Wall of Force to bind them.

 

[Flamestrike]

I was being diplomatic before, but this Planetar fight is so, so silly. 2 CR 16 creatures is a Deadly encounter for a single character. Just because a wizard can't win doesn't make the fighter, who is going to do just as badly, better.

What are you talking about 'not winning'. Both PCs (assuming 20th and fully rested) are a good change of winning (though the Fighter needs a magic bow to get through the HP in time).

 

[jmartkdr2]

Well, I can't see how you can have adventures with epic travel if easy travel spells exist. Like you cannot have adventure about navigating your aether ship through the Shifting Empyrean Seas to reach the Liminal Shores of the Whispering Isle upon which the City of Crystal Tears is located, if you can just use Plane Shift to get directly next to the City of Crystal Tears.

Assuming you already have an appropriate tuning fork, that would be an issue. If tuning forks are hard to find, Plane Shift wouldn't help.

Which is a microcosm of my experience generally: these spells are good, but none of them are perfect solutions to whatever problem they address, except in specific cases.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Casters (long rest types) only dominater in single encounter adventuring days. Martials dominates in longer ones.

I think that's a somewhat misleading claim.

Casters benefit most when they're in a situation where they can basically drop one of their higher-end spells every round. Single encounters days certainly allow that, but in fact I don't think they'll show peak dominance, because at levels above about five, that's likely to be underkill - i.e. the caster will have quite a few strong spells left.

Given most encounters, last, what, three-four rounds (last I heard), a 5th-level caster can potentially drop a 2 3rd and 1 or 2 2nd level spells in that period (which might be upcasted versions of lower-level spells). So he does perhaps favour one encounter/day or at most two to really be superior.

But by the time you get to 9th-level, it's looking more like three encounters/day is pretty favourable to casters, and I'd suggest that broadly this trend continues, at least up to a point.

So rather than claiming that one encounter/day is the only situation casters dominate in (which is the stated position), maybe note that the longer the day, the more likely Martials are to end up in first an equitable position, and then an advantageous one, and that at higher levels, the number of encounters this takes increases. Pretty sure 6-8 was chosen because of this. As an aside, personally I still think it's excessive - characters of all classes should progress so it's more like 3-5/day is ideal imho, but that would take an entire new edition to do, so is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Asisreo]

Ill just wish the magic circle cast as if it was 8th level slot into existence then, and direct my simulacrum to use his 9th level slot to do the same (I created him with my Simulacrum spell).

Hold on, like I said, there were no given spell components in this situation. Every spell component given to the wizard is, in my eyes, equivalent to a magic item of the same cost for the fighter. Which is why I've eliminated them, removing the DM fiat as people would suggest.

So your Simulacrum must come from the Wish spell, and wouldn't have the 9th-level slot.

You can definitely circle one of them with a Wish, but they can even still participate in the fight.

 

[Dausuul]

Deleted: Never mind, I see the "challenge" is mutating. No costly spell components? Don't be ridiculous. Are you denying the fighter access to full plate, too?

 

[Flamestrike]

For example a sharpshooter arcane archer (Martial adept (precise shot, menacing shot), Fey touched [Hunters mark] Fighting adept (disarming shot), Lucky, +4 Dex, Sharpshooter, Dex 20) Fighter could quite realistically deal 8d8+18d6+120 damage in a single turn to one of them.

Turn two he could deal 8d8+8d6+120 damage to the other one.