MASS COMBAT: Cry Havoc or WOTC Mini Handbook

[The_Universe]

I'm looking for a book that can handle big, epic battles in my game. I'd like something that doesn't stray TOO far from the standard D&D rules, and both of the systems in Cry Havoc and Mini Handbook look like they might work. Ideally, I'd like something that could be extracted into D20 Modern, as well...but that is hardly a necessity.

So, what do you think? Which book do I need? Which book has the better system for mass combat? Is there another product out there that's better than any of these?


THANKS!

 

[diaglo]

Chainmail By Perren and Gygax

 

[The_Universe]

Chainmail By Perren and Gygax

Thanks, Diaglo! Unfortunately, that game is a little hard to come by, and I'm looking for something compatible with either 3.0 or 3.5 (and, as I said earlier, perhaps D20Modern as well).

Any other ideas, gang?

 

[Limper]

Cry Havoc its not as dependent on Minis.

 

[diaglo]

I also like the Mass Combat rules in the Companion Rules Boxed set.

 

[Henry]

I cannot speak for the Mini Handbook, but I can speak for Cry Havoc. Its biggest advantages are:

1) It was built with going back and forth between unit combat and inidividual combat in mind. (Unit combat is anything with up to about 200 individuals on a side.)

2) It also has an Army Combat system (not tactical in nature at all, mostly number-crunching) that can handles battles with thousands on a side, and in theory come up with a logical outcome for the battle.

3) It has a lot of supplemental material on The precursors and outcomes to a war, some of which you may not have previously thought about (I know I hadn't).

It's $10.00 as a PDF, and well worth the purchase. It also of course has the obligatory scads of PrC's/Feats/Spells, etc.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I can't recommend Cry Havoc enough. Out of the 100ish d20/D&D books I own, it's certainly in the top 10 -- top 5 if I don't include the core books.

Cry Havoc has rules for differing scales (50 troops per side, or 50,000; 1 minute at a time, one hour at a time, or the whole war with a few rolls), special creatures (the sample combat has an 18th-level wizard, orc minions, ogre mages, and so forth), 30 general terrain types, an extensive system for giving orders to troops (from bolstering morale to taking command of a captured unit through sheer force of personality), and so forth. It has new feats and prestige classes for battlefield-centered characters, though they're only a small portion of the book. There's a whole section on using magic to affect the war.

 

[drnuncheon]

This is getting to be a very common question. I think that I am going to take some of my copious free time to run tests on some of the major mass combat systems (and post the results, of course). These are the ones I have access to:

OMCS (Mongoose)
Cry Havoc!
AEG's Empire
Birthright 3.5 fan conversion

Anyone have good ideas on what sort of tests I should run? I'd be looking to compare ease of use, plausibility of outcome, etc, so here are some ideas:

"Gulliver vs. the Lilliputians" - one big powerful creature vs. a horde of weaklings.
"Blood War" - can it handle troops with lots of special powers?
"Seige" - fortifications and the like.

Others that people would like to see?

If anyone else is in the Pittsburgh area and wants to help, please contact me.

J

 

[diaglo]

on the weaker side of Mass Combat:

there is the old Battlesystem boxed set. along with the H series.
and the supplemental handbooks for minis and the one for skirmishers

or the Quint Fighter from Mongoose. i don't recommend it though.

 

[Arnwyn]

Well, to respond to the original poster: I have no idea what you need... you didn't note very many conditions that you require for the rules to be useful to you.

I like Cry Havoc much more than the Miniatures Handbook, simply because Cry Havoc is not dependent on having a whole load of miniatures.

And drnuncheon - I look forward to seeing the results! I, too, am curious as to what the "best" mass combat system is. I'm leaning toward Cry Havoc right now, but I really want to see what Fields of Blood is going to be like. I'm also quite curious about how the Birthright 3.5 fan conversion works.