Pathfinder 1E Mass combat in Pathfinder

[SoldierBlue]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Wondering if anyone out there has attempted using a mass combat system for Pathfinder, which allows for heroic, LotR-style battles, with the PCs as full participants/commanders.

This last piece is always difficult to achieve - you need to be prepared to break PCs down into a miniature/counter to fit appropriately in the battle.

I've got an old "Cry Havoc" book by Skip Williams which promises mass combat for 3.0; I'm considering trying it out for Pathfinder.

Guidance, counsel, and suggestions on this system or anything else is appreciated.

Thanks so much, and I continue to be impressed by the thoughful, helpful, and courteous discussion here on EN World.

 

[Serendipity]

Kingmaker, the next paizo AP is supposed to contain mass combat rules - in part five IIRC.

 

[SoldierBlue]

Thanks - please assist IIRC means what?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

IIRC is "If I recall correctly"

Part one of the Kingmaker adventure path is set to ship within the next week or so, which means around four months to wait for the fifth part. Don't know if you want to wait that long.

I've used Cry Havoc for D&D. I can't imagine that it will be that much different in Pathfinder. One thing that you'll need to do is to make sure that the skills that you'll be using for the Cry Havoc stuff will be clearly available to your player characters and useful in some way before the mass combat stuff comes up.

 

[SoldierBlue]

Thanks. I'm stoked about Kingmaker, especially as PirateCat is writing the first chapter, and it seems to be so "Expert Set" in its entire conceit. Now I'm looking forward to the mass combat aspect too.

How did Cry Havoc play for you? Did you use it with Pathfinder?

 

[Alzrius]

This isn't very helpful now, but this August Paizo is going to release the Advanced Player's Guide, which I believe will also have mass combat rules for Pathfinder.

 

[Skeld]

I'm stoked about Kingmaker, especially as PirateCat is writing the first chapter...

PirateCat isn't writing the first chapter of Kingmaker, Tim Hitchcock is. PirateCat is writing "The City of Seven Spears" which appears in PF#39 this coming October.

-Skeld

 

[James Jacobs]

I'm actually just about to sit down and finalize the fast-play mass combat rules for Pathfinder Adventure Path #35. These rules aren't going to be anything to challenge Warhammer or Battlesystem or anything like that for complexity—they won't even really use miniatures. The hope is that the rules work to quickly resolve mass battles in a way that's fun but not too complex. The focus of Kingmaker, like all of Pathfinder's adventures, is supposed to remain on the micro level, focusing on the PCs and their characters, after all.

We DO keep talking about doing a big Mass Combat book for Pathfinder, and if we some day do that, it'll certainly be a more complex version. But the version that'll be in Kingmaker will be fast and quick and (hopefully!) fun.

 

[SoldierBlue]

"We DO keep talking about doing a big Mass Combat book for Pathfinder, and if we some day do that, it'll certainly be a more complex version. But the version that'll be in Kingmaker will be fast and quick and (hopefully!) fun."

Mr. Jacobs,

Excellent - I don't have the time or wherewithal to handle a more complex system, so I'd prefer the simpler version.

I'm curious how ultimately the PCs will be handled in mass combat. There is always the trade-off of involving the PCs as commanders: do they retain all their nuanced flavour and stats and possibley overwhelm the system, or do they become simplified stat blocks like the other units in the battle? I seem to remember that 1st edition handled it slightly better than 2nd Edition, but that was when I had the time/energy to invest in learning the systems...

Regardless, I'm looking forward to either version.

Thanks

 

[Burn_Boy]

I ran a mass combat scenario with Pathfinder a few months back. It didn't totally suck and I think the rules worked for everyone. It was a bit like Helm's Deep. 30 or so defenders, not including the PCs against about a hundred Orcs. The battle took about five hours and if I had tilted my head at the end my brain would've leaked out my ear but it seemed to go well.

I just turned each cluster of enemies into a swarm and once enough hit points were done by my defender swarm, using mass combat rules from 3.5s Complete Warrior, I just took one of the miniatures away. It got a little more complicated when the PCs got off the wall and started messing up. I learned though that it's better to give the PCs specific mission in the battle (destroy the siege engines, knock down the ladders etc.) rather than using them as foot soldiers.

Oh, and if one of your players is a AoE spell king... don't let them stay on the walls.